Compulite Vector on Top of the Pops

[andystone]

Not sure I'm allowed to post this, but it's not really sales pitch, honest!!

 

Just thought some of you might like to know we recently supplied the new Compulite Vector console to lighting designer/operator Bill Peachment for Top of the Pops.

 

You can check out our press release at http://stagetec.co.uk/php/index.php?sectio...&contentid=1372

 

If anyone want to know more let me know....

 

Andy Stone

Stagetec

[Kevin Robertson]

I would say that you are allowed to post this informative post.

Desk sounds good.

 

 

Right up until the 'user friendly windows environment to work in'.

WHY? :** laughs out loud **:

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

the board really does look good.

[Stu]

Well I wouldn't cost it as advertising - how many of us can actually afford one of these desks?!

 

One quick question on the subject of TOTP - do they still use Mac 250s/500s/2000s on the rig, or have they started to use other movers? Don't watch it that often (not in when it's on) so not seen it for quite a while.

 

Stu

[andystone]

To answer Kevin first, the reason for using Windows is that it is familiar to everyone and with XP it is real easy to plug in any external device and the system recognises it. Should Windows crash, you can re-boot Windows while still operating the system as everything to do with running the desk is handled by a separate processor.

 

And Stu, the way Top of the Pops works now is that they change the LD every 4 weeks and as everything is hired in it is up to the lighting director to decide what he wants (and the budget, of course). This week there were MAC500s, MAC250s, MAC600s, Golden Scans, Clay Paky Stage Prodile Plus and around 270 LED fixtures of all kinds of types.

 

Andy Stone

Stagetec

[Kevin Robertson]

Sorry. I take it back.

Was just reading more on the desk and the fact that the software runs alongside XP and not on top seems an excelent idea. I was really taking a pop at MS rather than the desk. (I use XP on all my machines and love most of it)

[Stu]

And Stu, the way Top of the Pops works now is that they change the LD every 4 weeks and as everything is hired in it is up to the lighting director to decide what he wants (and the budget, of course). This week there were MAC500s, MAC250s, MAC600s, Golden Scans, Clay Paky Stage Prodile Plus and around 270 LED fixtures of all kinds of types.

Out of interest, what would be the budget for a show such as TOTP? Obviously I'm sure you can't supply the exact figure, but roughly how much does the BBC deem worthy to pay out for the Lighting? Oh, and another one I've thought off, I presume the BBC has it's own TV lighting, but does it keep any generic lanterns within it's stock, for shows such as TOTP, i.e. Source Fours, Floorcans, that sort of thing.

 

Stu

PS. Interesting point on the 4 week change over, presume this is to keep the show feeling fresh...

[Tomo]

Pop quiz:

Why the heck did someone have a brainfreeze and put Windows XP Embedded on a lighting desk?

 

At least they had the sense to use a true real-time OS for the time-critical bits, but XP-Embedded isn't much more stable than XP-Home, and has a memory footprint at least fifty times that of an optimized Linux system.

Runs one heck of a lot slower as well.

 

The processor and system memory subsystems sound like they are just for 'big numbers', rather than the units actually needed to do the work.

The maximum system RAM is enough to store over 240,000 states, assuming you have all the possible 8192 DMX channels in use. I can't believe that any show could need all of those - if you have a different cue every tenth of a second, you could run for 6 and a half HOURS before running out of stored states.

[andystone]

Out of interest, what would be the budget for a show such as TOTP? Obviously I'm sure you can't supply the exact figure, but roughly how much does the BBC deem worthy to pay out for the Lighting? Oh, and another one I've thought off, I presume the BBC has it's own TV lighting, but does it keep any generic lanterns within it's stock, for shows such as TOTP, i.e. Source Fours, Floorcans, that sort of thing.

 

Stu

PS. Interesting point on the 4 week change over, presume this is to keep the show feeling fresh...

Sorry, don't know much about the budget details.

 

The BBC has most of it's generic lighting in house, including dimmers and desks, it is only the intelligent lighting and control systems that are hired in. This was changed quite a few years ago as it meant they could use the latest technology rather than sticking to what they had in stock.

 

Yes, the 4 week changeover is to keep the show fresh, they actually change the set every week, using most of the same elements, but in completely different configurations.

 

Andy Stone

Stagetec

[Stu]

Interesting stuff - thanks for replying Andy.

 

Stu

[andystone]

Pop quiz:

Why the heck did someone have a brainfreeze and put Windows XP Embedded on a lighting desk?

 

At least they had the sense to use a true real-time OS for the time-critical bits, but XP-Embedded isn't much more stable than XP-Home, and has a memory footprint at least fifty times that of an optimized Linux system.

Runs one heck of a lot slower as well.

 

The processor and system memory subsystems sound like they are just for 'big numbers', rather than the units actually needed to do the work.

The maximum system RAM is enough to store over 240,000 states, assuming you have all the possible 8192 DMX channels in use.  I can't believe that any show could need all of those - if you have a different cue every tenth of a second, you could run for 6 and a half HOURS before running out of stored states.

You have to bear in mind that the Windows XP side is only used for the graphical user interface, it has no effect on the operation or speed of the system.

 

Yes, the memory is big, but there are a number of reasons for this. Firstly, it is a new console and needs to be on the market for at least 5 years, so who knows what is going to come on to the market in that time.

 

Secondly, it is not only storing cue information, it also has to store potentially thousands of libraries, effects, submaster pages, cue timing per attribute, etc, etc and they don't want to run into problems that other control system manufacturers have where the system runs out of memory - it is cheap, better to have too much than too little!

[andystone]

Interesting stuff - thanks for replying Andy.

 

Stu

Your welcome.

 

It's been quite interesting over the past few weeks. I have been working with the Vector design time for almost two years developing the system, but this is the first one we have sold in the UK, and it's on one of the biggest live TV shows.

 

Most of my experience doing shows, before I got into the sales side of the business, was in theatre where you are are playing to a max of around 2000 people. Pops is seen by millions live in the UK and even more millions world wide later.

 

You can imagine the tension in the control room the first time we used the Vector for it's UK debut, luckily it performed!

 

Andy Stone

Stagetec

[Tomo]

You have to bear in mind that the Windows XP side is only used for the graphical user interface, it has no effect on the operation or speed of the system. [snip]

It's understandable, just not the best OS for the job.

A friend of mine develops for XP-Embedded, and she hates it with a vengance.

 

Secondly, it is not only storing cue information, it also has to store potentially thousands of libraries, effects, submaster pages, cue timing per attribute, etc, etc and they don't want to run into problems that other control system manufacturers have where the system runs out of memory - it is cheap, better to have too much than too little!

 

The system RAM shouldn't be storing more than one of the libraries etc at a time anyway - that's what the hard disk and optical drives are for.

[andystone]

Agreed, I can't answer fully for why this OS was chosen, but at the end of the day it's not the hardware or OS that counts, it's how the desk performs.

 

It is also important to note that the Windows OS isn't only used for the console, you can also run CAD programs such as WYSIWYG and others on the console, plus any other Windows software you want including all kinds of multiimedia stuff that can be integrated with the show.

 

Andy Stone

Stagetec

[ace]

you can also run CAD programs such as WYSIWYG and others on the console, plus any other Windows software you want including all kinds of multiimedia stuff that can be integrated with the show

 

It always strikes me though that I would prefere to keep my lighting console free from third party software which can potentially cause alot more problems to your operating system.

 

Is it not better to have a second PC or laptop sat next to your lighting console to run extra software on?

 

Also, does it not scare people that we are clearly moving towards a position where we are going to have lighting consoles sat on the internet, (for downloading device settings etc), that with native windows environments the desk will be completely open to all sorts of attack from virus etc?

 

Just my thoughts! ;)

 

PS what would you give to work on a show like TOTP!! :** laughs out loud **:

[smeggie]

in order; imho;

It always strikes me though that I would prefere to keep my lighting console free from third party software which can potentially cause alot more problems to your operating system.

I would too, though it's not always possible

Is it not better to have a second PC or laptop sat next to your lighting console to run extra software on?

that's what we are trying out at the 'mo with a new synch to a pearl at ussu [workshop area - could take a while to iron out the bugs though]

does it not scare people that we are clearly moving towards a position where we are going to have lighting consoles sat on the internet, ... desk will be completely open to all sorts of attack from virus etc?

yes it scares the screaming heebejeebies out of me - but that is the way that technology is developing, I just hope that firewalls can cope with it.

would you give to work on a show like TOTP

and I would give at least one major limb or a minor organ[ appendix..] to work on totp. could be fun.

.

I thought that totp was recorded on thursday and sent out on fri? not any more?

 

no matter. nice new toy anyway.

cheers

andrew

 

[edit; context provided - sorry]