insert "tapping"

[timtheenchanteruk]

Apologies if this has been covered before, but I couldn't find anything on a search.

 

I want to use the insert points of my desk (yamaha MG3214FX) to gain some line outs for live recording, whilst using the same desk for FOH.

Am I right in thinking that a modified TRS-TS lead will work, ie link the tip and ring of the TRS, with the tip/ring to the tip, and sleeve to sleeve would give me a tap of the pre-fade signal, whilst not interfering with the mixer, to take off to a multitracker/similar.

 

So far I have only used my remaining aux sends, which means I have to pre-mix via the sends some items, whereas a better mix would be got if I could do all the mixing post-record.

 

your thoughts/reccomendations please.

[MarkPAman]

:D :D :(

You've got it spot on.

:P :) :)

[Bobbsy]

Your plan for the cables is right.

 

One thing to remember when using the insert jacks as recording outputs is that on the MG series, the inserts are post EQ, so you'll be recording with whatever settings you're using for FOH. This isn't always ideal...usually recording is best done as near as possible to flat, with EQ done at the time of the mix.

 

Bob

[rob.d]

:D :D :(

You've got it spot on.

:P :) :)

 

Just a thought... would you be better off making the mod at the TRS end? Unlikely, but if one were to run the direct out cable 10 metres to the recorder box, by the time the signal got back to the original mixer source it'd have gone along a cable and come back, all of 20 metres unbalanced, and (more or less) naked to the effects of noise and interference? Possibly also denuded of some top end frequencies?

 

Also, could one be sure that the source impedance and/ or resulting level wouldn't have gone to pot in the process? Electronics not my forte...

 

Glad to be corrected where neccesary.

 

rob :)

[paulears]

useful topics on this subject are

here

 

and plenty more put insert recording into the search box and bingo

[TallMike]

Mackie actually uses this system on some of their small desks - our 1402VLZs have insert/direct out jacks. If I remember rightly, it actually says on the back that to obtain a 'direct out', you need to insert the jack only half way!

[andy_s]

:D :D :(

You've got it spot on.

:P :) :)

 

Just a thought... would you be better off making the mod at the TRS end? Unlikely, but if one were to run the direct out cable 10 metres to the recorder box, by the time the signal got back to the original mixer source it'd have gone along a cable and come back, all of 20 metres unbalanced, and (more or less) naked to the effects of noise and interference? Possibly also denuded of some top end frequencies?

 

Also, could one be sure that the source impedance and/ or resulting level wouldn't have gone to pot in the process? Electronics not my forte...

 

Glad to be corrected where neccesary.

 

rob :)

 

I've always assumed that the DO jack is a parallel path to the signal continuing through the channel strip, so there would be no significant delay on the "live" signal. Is this wrong?

[zonino]

this is talking about using an Insert at a DO though, rather than the DO

[MarkPAman]

Mackie actually uses this system on some of their small desks - our 1402VLZs have insert/direct out jacks. If I remember rightly, it actually says on the back that to obtain a 'direct out', you need to insert the jack only half way!

 

This does work with some desks, though it's not a method I trust. One small movement of that jack and you could loose your recording, live sound or both. :D

[jamesperrett]

Just a thought... would you be better off making the mod at the TRS end? Unlikely, but if one were to run the direct out cable 10 metres to the recorder box, by the time the signal got back to the original mixer source it'd have gone along a cable and come back, all of 20 metres unbalanced, and (more or less) naked to the effects of noise and interference? Possibly also denuded of some top end frequencies?

 

Also, could one be sure that the source impedance and/ or resulting level wouldn't have gone to pot in the process? Electronics not my forte...

 

You are right to be thinking about this and hopefully the original poster was going to make the mod at the TS end anyway as there is little point in using twice the amount of cable that you need to. However, with modern electronics, long unbalanced lines aren't quite as bad as you think. The source impedance is important when thinking about long cables and if it is low then cable capacitance will have little effect on the signal. The source impedance in most modern audio gear is going to be a few tens of ohms which will allow you to use a kilometre or two of normal cable before you'll hear the effects of cable capacitance. With well shielded cables the effects of interference may well be less than the effects of adding extra electronics to do the balanced line conversions.

 

Cheers

 

James.

[timtheenchanteruk]

:unsure: :blink: :)

You've got it spot on.

:) :) :)

 

Just a thought... would you be better off making the mod at the TRS end?

rob :)

 

thats exactly what I was going to do, ie bend the tags over for the tip/sleeve and solder together taking a single conductor from this (maybe 2 depending on if have any unbalanced cable in the cellar)

good point about the post eq though, does anyone know if the aux sends on this desk (and other just in case) is pre or post eq? if thats pre I could just do some careful selection of the materal I need to record,

the other way I could do this to solve the eq problem is input to the multitrack first, then use the insert of that to feed the desk. although dont know if I like that idea, if for whatever reason it stop recording it will cut signal too.