SAE Institute

[zac coupe]

Hi Folks

This would be my first post so pleased to meet everyone.

Im zac, 16 years old. Nottinghamshire.

Im interested in sound and already own a large 4 way rig. I was just going to leave school and set up business in pro audio but have been talked into studying a bit first. Which I suppose is the best option. One course which I am particularily interested in is http://www.saeuk.com/london/audio_courses_lon/Y42.php

 

 

I wondered if any one on here had been on the course and what they thought of it. Also are there any other options for someone wanting to be a live sound engineer for anything from conferences to rock concerts?

 

cheers

Zac

[Shaggy]

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't bother with an sae course or similar. The course you linked is a studio based course, and I believe sae is also very expensive. I would probably just do A-levels, maybe including music tech as these help keep your options open for doing something other than sound in the future. Then get as much experience with PA as possible in your spare time. After a-levels try and get a job with a company that will give you experience, sounds to me like you want to work with a hire company rather than going into theatre.

[Bobbsy]

I can't comment on that specific course but I'm going to play devils advocate and post the opposing view to shaggy.

 

There's room for a lot of further education when it comes to being really good at live sound reinforcement. A lot of this will be maths and physics-related and it's hard to learn this part of the skill "on the job". Getting to the top of the pile in live sound work isn't just shoving faders around. You need at least a working knowledge of acoustics, electrical and electronic theory. You should be able to discuss dBu, dBV, dBW, dB(SPL) and the like without even thinking about it. Nowadays, some digital theory is likely essential too. Finally, let's throw in some music appreciation!

 

Clearly, there's no one route into the live sound industry and some of the best working out there are self taught (or at least graduates of the "school of life"). However, by the same token, in the job market you'll be competing against people who DO have a formal qualification. One of the best live sound mixers I know did the University of Surrey "Tonmeister" course which is quite recording-oriented but also concentrates on actually listening to what you're mixing.

 

Everyone's mileage varies...but don't discount the formal training route.

 

Bob

[Chris Hinds]

There's room for a lot of further education when it comes to being really good at live sound reinforcement. A lot of this will be maths and physics-related and it's hard to learn this part of the skill "on the job". Getting to the top of the pile in live sound work isn't just shoving faders around. You need at least a working knowledge of acoustics, electrical and electronic theory. You should be able to discuss dBu, dBV, dBW, dB(SPL) and the like without even thinking about it. Nowadays, some digital theory is likely essential too. Finally, let's throw in some music appreciation!

I'll echo the suggestion to stay in education for a while, at least until you have some A-Levels. Firstly the government continues to devalue each level of qualificiation. When I took my GCSEs I was being told I had to have them in order to set me apart from other people for employers. When I did my A-Level I was told they would give me the edge over another candidate in order to get a job. Now the government wants 50% of people through universities too so even the degree I obtained last summer may be subject to the same devaluation eventually. It is worth having something that you can not necessarily fall back on but something that gives you a more solid grounding than GCSE IT does.

 

As Bobbsy has pointed out we are no longer in the point and guess world of twenty years ago. Expectations of audiences are higher, expectations of artists are higher and expectations of production teams are higher. With Line Arrays, Digital Speaker Processing, SMAART/Transfer Functions, Digital Desks, Wireless audio, Multi purpose effects and a stock 5 piece band able to take up 30+ channels of desk you need to be able to understand all that goes behind it. Predominantly the guys that are currently at the top of the industry doing the tours, the high profile concerts/festivals etc they either have decades of experience and have learned the new tools because they have had to in order to maintain their position, or they are graduates going in having worked in the industry through university.

 

In order to run a ProAudio business you need more than passion, you need the business skills, legal requirements (which you will struggle with at your current age), finance, sound understanding of the technicalities behind the equipment, quick assessment of faults and resolution of them and sound knowledge of sound, power and acoustics. Oh and space for storage. You also need clients. Clients tend to trust names that have been around for a while, that makes it wiser to get a job working for a known production company than to start your own - effectively part of the business equation is removed.

 

I don't want this to sound like I'm down beating your ideas, I will encourage anyone that has the interest to get involved. You can learn the mixing and sonic bit on the job, but while the government are prepared to teach you the Maths, Business and Physics basics for nothing I'd stick about and do A-Levels.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[tokm]

If your set on doing a Uni course in live sound, look at the NCDT website, they list all of the well known courses for our industry, not just noise.

 

In particular, I think Central School of Speech & Drama do a live sound course, rose bruford does one I think. And Mountview gives you the option to near totally specialise in the 2nd year to do whatever section you like (in your case sound).

 

Also, hasn't a live sound/engineering course just been advertised on here recently in the classifieds section?? Might be worth checking out.

 

Either way, your only 16, still a year or so to think what you want to do. Advice on weather to go to college or stick it out at school doing as relevant a-levels as you can, has been covered before. Don't just rely on your schools 'careers advisor' , to help (mine had never heard of the NCDT or any of the drama schools). From what I've seen, they don't know much about courses relevant to us, mainly english/IT/science and all the usual school'y subjects, mainly because thats what most people tend want to go off and do.

 

Second Bobbsy & Chris's comments about setup of a business, its possible to do, but their are way more easier ways to go do what you want to do that mean you don't get sick of dealing with it all and end up hating the job.

 

HTH.

 

Tom

 

Mods - Is this not more of a training and qualifications sort of thread, rather than a general sound one?

 

Yes - duly moved

[paulears]

SAE should not be sniffed at. I have never ever heard of any negative comments by people on their courses, the equipment is 100% top line, the studios are of fully professional standard and the fees are high, and don't usually attract government funding. So - you have to be really serious to spend your money on their courses. However, the training and experience you get is of a very high standard. People with the SAE qualification are respected as peoiple who really know their stuff! They do now offer a full degree programme that does offer the usual loans and UCAS application process - but, you'll have to really be worth them taking you.

 

Traditionally they are interested in recording, but I note that they do train people as live sound engineers too. It is worth noting that PLASA management have a good working relationship with them.

[zac coupe]

cheers for the responses folks. I like the sound of SAE but will look into some of the other courses mentioned. with regard to business legalities I already have 5m PLI and also equipment insurance ( I know there are more legalities etc to be covered) Ive spoke with the careers advisers but they are not very useful at all.

[paulears]

I see SAE are giving all their new students a free Macbook, and software to keep!

They are also sponsoring Neves Nevolution - here

[djw1981]

Given their fees, I'm not sure it is free so much as "Included in your fees is a Macbook setup with the software we want you to use which we have obtained at a cheaper price than you would yourselves due to bulk purchasing".

 

Not argueing with the idea - it ensures conformity for teaching, just that given the fees such places charge, describing it as free is interesting....

[jamesperrett]

SAE should not be sniffed at. I have never ever heard of any negative comments by people on their courses, the equipment is 100% top line, the studios are of fully professional standard and the fees are high, and don't usually attract government funding. So - you have to be really serious to spend your money on their courses. However, the training and experience you get is of a very high standard. People with the SAE qualification are respected as peoiple who really know their stuff! They do now offer a full degree programme that does offer the usual loans and UCAS application process - but, you'll have to really be worth them taking you.

 

Traditionally they are interested in recording, but I note that they do train people as live sound engineers too. It is worth noting that PLASA management have a good working relationship with them.

 

I've not had personal experience of their courses but SAE don't enjoy a universally favourable reputation. I've never been particularly impressed with the CV's that any of their graduates have sent me. They seem to make a big thing of teaching people how to use their big mixing desks but very few people woule actually need to know things like the intricacies of SSL automation nowadays.

 

I would go for maths and physics at A Level followed by a more engineering oriented course. Keep doiing plenty of sound work in your spare time.

 

Cheers

 

James.

[Jivemaster]

My suggestion is: Take and pass WELL maths and physics and ensure your english CDT and IT skills are good and current. Also try to appreciate music and read music and prob PLAY music, Keys or strings or guitar, to a level that pleases you. That way you should be able to talk to musos and listen to their sound as they would. There are MANY courses at degree level, look at several and remember that in the five years til you graduate public expectations will have risen and technology will have both driven that and followed it with increasing complexity aiming to achieve "better" sound.

[knotted]

I did the SAE diploma course at london, quite a while back now.

It is indeed very expensive but I couldn;t really fault it. The cost weeds out the people who aren't dead set on the industry.

If you are wanting to go into live work then it's probably not the best thing, it's almost entirely studio based with only a theory module on live sound. However there are lots of useful things to be learnt for the live environment such as mic placement, cabling etc.

The equipment is fantastic, constant reinvestment, a new studio was added when I was there and another was under construction.

The course was well structured, good balance of theory and practical, assesment is through modular multiple choice examinations and practical recording projects, with a final project and final exam at the end of the course. It was 3 days per week, 4 hours a day (I think) theory, with as much practical time as you could book.

 

hope that helps, they have regular open days so go and have a look!

[Bennage]

I checked this place out years ago before I went to college and was not impressed.

None of the people there seemed to know the difference between the BTEC course and the Degree course.

The thing I remember the most was that they really wanted to show off the fact that they had programmed the motorized faders to make pretty patterns.

They seemed to be so proud of it that nothing else mattered. The guy showing us around even had this ridiculously smug grin on his face while it was running.

To be honest, if you can, try to find somewhere else. There are better places.

 

However, I found that I learnt more in the 6 months after college than I did in the 2 years I spent training. I left and went all over Soho to give in CVs to all the audio post-production houses and landed a job as a runner for one of the big ones. Even as a runner, if you show enthusiasm - asking loads of questions, "What's this?" "What does that do?" - you will eventually move up.

 

Whether you go for further training & education or working somewhere, I'd recommend you get some more experience under your belt before going it alone.

Maybe do college and also get a part time runner job somewhere.

 

If someone wants a sound engineer and they have 2 candidates:

One has 3 years of training at some college/university but never worked.

The other has no formal training but has spent 3-4 years working in the industry.

 

The employer will normally go for the one with the most experience. If you get both - harrah!

 

I'm sure other people here will have different ideas, but this is what I've found.

 

Hope this helps!

 

B

[zac coupe]

Im thinking along similar lines to you now Bennage. I can afford to do the say course if that is what I choose to do however it is alot of money to spend if it isnt gonna teach me a great deal regards live sound. So I think ill try and get in with a sound company whilst maybe doing an electrical course part time and some short courses in sound.

cheers

[Jivemaster]

Whatever you do, treasure your hearing NOW. Notice noise induced hearing loss, and try to avoid it. You must start your career with reasonable hearing.