Crowne PCC 160's Advice wanted

[flasherharris]

Anyone got good advice on using these mics in a small theatre for musicals?

 

For instance most people seem to mount them on 1 inch foam with Gaffer tape, presumably to reduce mechanical pickup from the stage. Is this necessary and does it reduce the boundary effect by picking the flat part of the microphone 1 inch above the floor? No mention of mounting them on foam is made on the Crown website.

 

Can they just be screwed down with the keyhole holes provided on the rear?

 

Should I use base cut, flat or boost?

 

I need to mount them very close to the font of the stage (the stage is narrow back to front). Does this cause a problem? Crown recommend putting them a foot from the front.

 

I need to mask them at the front from picking up the orchestra, who are very close. Any recommendations? Also any recommendations on spacing mics and filling in upstage, using suspended PCC's or rifle mics?

 

Lots of questions I know, sorry and thanks!

[gareth]

One thing which I can't help wondering ....

 

You said it's a small theatre ; and you're doing a musical, which are by their nature not exactly quiet shows anyway. So why are you considering float mics? Is there a specific reason that you feel you need them? Or, with respect, is it just because you've seen it done elsewhere and you think it's something you should be doing?

[Bryson]

I'm not sure Gareth - if the cast aren't exactly total pros, the PCCs are a decent way of lifting the Chorus above the Band in a smallish place.

[gareth]

I'm not sure Gareth - if the cast aren't exactly total pros, the PCCs are a decent way of lifting the Chorus above the Band in a smallish place.

I can sort of see your point ... although if the venue is a small one and we still can't hear the chorus for the band, it makes me wonder whether the band is overdoing it, in terms of either dynamics or number of players?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that float mics don't have their uses, especially if they're something as useful as PCC160s. But I can't help but notice a trend to see them as a 'universal cure' - can't hear the chorus? bump up the float mics, even if a better solution would be to look again at the overall balance and take another element of the sound down instead of bringing the chorus up. (Not that I'm accusing flasherharris of engaging in this rather dubious practice, you understand! Just commenting on the fact that it does seem to be a strategy adopted by many less experienced FOH engineers.)

[flasherharris]

Thanks Gareth and Bryson. Yes we do need to uplift the chorus above the band. Even though we are amateur we sometimes have a 13 piece semi pro orchestra who are at the same level as the front few rows of the audience, whereas in many professional theatres the orchestra are tucked down below.

 

The problem is less with a small combo for the panto, although as the run goes on even the musical director has trouble keeping the bass guitar volume down!

 

We own three PCC 160s and two rifle mikes, but using the prefade listen on the rifle mikes during the pantomime made me realise that they are not contributing a lot compared with the PCC s.

 

Until we can afford decent radio mikes, and feel competent enough to use them then I am trying to get the best out of what we have.

 

This time I tried to mask the pccs from the orchestra sound but in doing so I raised the mics further off the stage and from since reading the crown literature, online, I think this may not be the right thing to do.

 

so any advice, experience, etc gratefully received!

 

regards

 

flasher harris (the name refers to the former use of homemade pyrotechnic equipment)

[gareth]

Now that I realise you have no radio mics for principals, and a 13-piece band to deal with, I'm coming to appreciate your dilemma! :D

 

One solution, which might by its nature be a bit too involved for an amateur production, would be to split some of the band off into a band room away from the stage - specifically the noisy bits like brass and drum kit. Put them out of the way somewhere, mic them up, give them video and audio monitoring so they can see the conductor and hear the rest of the mix, and away you go. But it's likely that you don't have the space to do this, and quite possibly not enough mics or video monitoring equipment either.

 

Another way (not so effective, but possibly still worth a try) would be to knock up some acoustic screens/baffles (wood/perspex 'walls' about 4 or 5 feet high) to put in front of the noisier sections of the band - a common practice in professional musical pits, mainly to enable decent separation in the mix.

 

Where have you been using the rifle mics? If you've got your three PCCs across the front of the apron, maybe try the rifles in a perch position, one each side - these might help in picking up voices when people are facing offstage while singing, which the PCCs might not pick up quite so well.

 

Anyway, there are several people on the forum who do sound a lot better than I do, so I'll leave it to them to offer further suggestions.

[robloxley]

I quite like using 2 or 3 PCC160s across the apron. However if you screw them directly the noise of feet will be horrendous. I like to take them to a heavy metal plate - to stop them bouncing around, especially in energetic musicals and with any form of semi-sprung stage - then put a thin layer of rubbery foam (like neoprene or similar) under these. YMMV.

Also you'll need to really tweak the EQ to get the best sound. IMHO.

[flasherharris]

Thank you gareth but I think we are stuck with the band squashed into a hole in the front of the stage! I think the rifle mikes in the wings (perch position?)may be a good idea, I have seen them hanging straight down above the stage but I don't believe this is very effective.

 

Rob, Your idea of a heavy metal plate sounds good, can you give me an idea of dimensions, thickness, where the mic is taped onto the plate etc? Does the plate extend the reflective surface of the mic and pick up extra gain?

 

Any ideas at all for protecting the mics from orchesta pickup?

[gareth]

I think the rifle mikes in the wings (perch position?)may be a good idea, I have seen them hanging straight down above the stage but I don't believe this is very effective.

Not at all effective. By their nature, rifle mics are very directional - and you don't often see singers standing on stage and singing straight up into the fly tower ... ;)

[PeterT]

Not at all effective. By their nature, rifle mics are very directional - and you don't often see singers standing on stage and singing straight up into the fly tower ... 

I'd have to disagree with you on this one, Gareth. I've done countless shows with 4 Sennheiser Rifles hung over the Stage and the level I get is more than acceptable. In fact they outperformed the footmics I had in front of the singers! It does depend on the mic but if they are high enough above the stage they will still pick up the sound. Remember humans aren't just uni directional otherwise how could you hear someone talking with their back to you?

[gareth]

Not at all effective. By their nature, rifle mics are very directional - and you don't often see singers standing on stage and singing straight up into the fly tower ... 

I'd have to disagree with you on this one, Gareth. I've done countless shows with 4 Sennheiser Rifles hung over the Stage and the level I get is more than acceptable. In fact they outperformed the footmics I had in front of the singers! It does depend on the mic but if they are high enough above the stage they will still pick up the sound. Remember humans aren't just uni directional otherwise how could you hear someone talking with their back to you?

Perhaps what I should have said is that flying rifle mics above the stage would be less effective. Of course they'll still pick up something, but IMHO they'd be much better employed in a perch position, in a 'sidefill' type of role - i.e. the PCC160s doing most of the work, with the rifles filling in the gaps when someone's facing offstage while singing. They can also be useful mounted on a midstage lighting boom if the show has a lot of chorus action upstage which might be out of the useful range of the float mics.