Camera Sound

[p.k.roberts]

I don't know the details of the desk you are using and you don't mention the camera model. So, to be as generic as possible, first sorting out the 'send end'. You say you have an SQN, so why not come out of the aux on the desk into the SQN. This will enable you to insert a limiter and prop the SQN somewhere where you can keep half an eye on it's meters. It will also balance the send if it is not already balanced. Considering the camera end, if you are using smaller 'DV' type cameras with unbalanced inputs then something like a 'Beach Box' will sort that problem out, converting balanced line to unbalanced 3.5mm jack. Finally, try and sort out some sort of sensible line up procedure. I would avoid the complexity of sep-sound if possible.

[paulears]

Yes sorry, the cheaper cameras that put XLR's are often unblalanced and have some difficulties without a powered mic. and yes, especially 3.5mm jack mic inputs these are very prone to noise.

Sorry James - you have me confused. I'm not aware of any camcorder that has XLRs that isn't designed for normal balanced operation. What difficulties with condenser are there?

 

The OP seems by the posts, to be editing the individual tapes afterwards, so what benefit is there to recording the audio separately on a DV recorder (and I won't ask where HD came from?). Workflow wise, adding yet another source requiring digitising in the editor, or the importing of a file from a drive, or even using the drive in real time seems a backwards step.

 

I suspect you may be doing media at Lichfield (which isn't, as far as I know as bad as you have described it Lichfield college .... waste of time) - so you might have limited experience in this kind of thing.

[Nicktaylor]

The clipping issue will not be got rid of by using a compresser. In you place I would take the camera out of auto and set the record level say -10db down, though it needs a bit of practice with the highest level coming out of your mixer. The other option is to lower you mixer send level, ie make it different to you PA feed. Once the signal is clipped you are stuffed!

 

Compressing will make your sound come and go in quality terms as the device will not react quickly enough.

 

I speak as a broadcast picture editor!

[dunk_1984]

I suspect you may be doing media at Lichfield (which isn't, as far as I know as bad as you have described it Lichfield college .... waste of time) - so you might have limited experience in this kind of thing.

 

I won't go into all the waste of time bit, but basically I have learnt nothing, just hoping for a piece of paper at the end of the year....

 

Now to be fair I have experience extending long before college, I have been a sound op for a number of years, operating at events such as town hall's and Scarborough (where I was also operating within Lix and AV) (and weekly at a church) there's no need for me to continue. (I know I won't be the most experienced person here by far, but I do know computer and technology extremely well)

 

The separate unit, that I suggested would replace the tape deck on the camera, then then combine the sound and the video either onto a tape or a Hard Drive (HD/HDD) or DVD, now as for editing opportunities afterwards, you can either take your DV tape and place that in the editing playout machine, or hard drive will probably be hooked up by firewire into your editing machine too. this means that your sound will be matched on the tape/hdd already. This will save you having to do what I'm currently having to do for a baptism, which is taking 3 cameras footage and syncing it with a computer Mp3 recording.

 

It isn't a step backwards, it would make life quite easy in fact, also you could get wireless units for the camera so you wouldn't even need a video feed through a long cable.

 

P.S. Yes I am also a Video Editor - obviously not for like the BBC, but as far as editing goes in the medium sector

[p.k.roberts]

The clipping issue will not be got rid of by using a compresser.

 

I would if you could get it into the programme chain before the clipping is occurring, although there would be other audible artifacts.

[Bobbsy]

The clipping issue will not be got rid of by using a compresser. In you place I would take the camera out of auto and set the record level say -10db down, though it needs a bit of practice with the highest level coming out of your mixer.

 

A few thoughts on this.

 

First, a limiter can be very useful in this sort of circumstances (indeed, most field recording mixers have built in limiters...I used to leave it switched in at all times on my AD260) but in this case we need to know more about the OP's setup. If, as some of us suspect, he has line level into a mic level input, that's a fundamental that needs fixing before worrying about anything else.

 

Second, a thought I had is that, if the aux feeds are clipping, then perhaps the gain staging on the mixer needs adjustment. Are things like the FOH feed also clipping but just more gently because of the gear in use?

 

Third, for dunk_1984, the OP clearly has a problem with the fundamentals somewhere in his chain. Cabling everything to a separate recorder might work...but it also incorporates extra complexity and cost that might not be needed. Better to fix the fundamentals than to veer wildly off onto a tangent methinks.

 

Bpb

[paulears]

Mainly addressed, I'm afraid to dunk_1984.

 

The OP has explained their method of working. Your solution is flawed. Some of the people contributing to this thread have, shall we say, considerable exerience of this kind of thing, and what you are suggesting, frankly, is rubbish. I'm not going to waste time explaining it all, but many of the current crop of editors can manage multiple camera feeds with ease. The principal headache comes from non-sync video and audio. Your suggestion, if the OP chose to implement it is slower and far more fiddly than having separate tapes. I guess you could put a drive on each camera, and that would be quicker, but the basic system he's using is not a problem .

 

As you work in Scarborough, you probably know the large theatre company I do lots of video work for.

 

You really should think a bit. Yes, you can get wireless units for the cameras and I expect you'd recommend using the cheap domestic ones. Sorry - but they are no good at all for reliable links. For fixed links they work most of the time, but share with other devices a very slim bit of spectrum - not good enough. I won't go into the quality issues, but DV down to composite thenback up again is not good!

 

Please stop giving advice like this, it is very confusing and to be frank, make the BR look a bit daft!

[Nicktaylor]

Okay

 

I sometimes record things I have lit on DV cameras. Probably I am the lighting opertor as well so while I can point the camera and run the desk, worrying about sound levels is a no no. Hence I have found that if an amateur DV camera is set at at least -5db fixed it will not suffer from the auto gain compressing designed into amateur cameras. In fact the last time I did this I was running the sound and in fact I needed even more attenuation dialed in as it was slightly clipping at the top end of the sound.

If a camera is left on auto then when sudden loud noises happen it crushes the level and this sounds rubbish as well.

As I said before try recording at a level and if the gain in the camera chain is too much tweek it down a bit more.

If I am using broadcast camera this is not a problem as I can tweek the record levels if required