Some recomendations

[Dayve]

I have two queries. One about what we have at school, and one about my own stuff.

 

1) At school we have a basic setup of four rails of lights with just bog standard cans on them and 6 more spot light type lights at the back. We run this all through a strand 200 series (DMX). I want to add some more "specialist" lights, ones which are more appropriate for music concerts- colour changers and all that kind of stuff. However, can all this be controlled by our console? How would we link it up? And finally, what kind of lights would you recommend and where would be the best place to buy them?

 

2) My band are starting to get quite good and im thinking of getting some equipment for us. Among that would be some lights. Im not too sure what id want etc. Id want some pars but also some more effect type lights (like above but on a smaller scale). What kind of lights would you recommend (on a fairly small budget) and where from again.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[mumbles]

1) At school we have a basic setup of four rails of lights with just bog standard cans on them and 6 more spot light type lights at the back. We run this all through a strand 200 series (DMX). I want to add some more "specialist" lights, ones which are more appropriate for music concerts- colour changers and all that kind of stuff. However, can all this be controlled by our console?

This depends entirely on which lights you have, and so on your budget. If you're talking about moving head etc, then yes, it can control them, but not easily. In terms of colour changers, you can have 2 kinds as a basic principle, ones which have a wheel with filters in them, and ones with something like CMY mixing (mixes between 3 discs, or more in some lights, in the different shades, to give you a complete choice like with the colour chooser on photoshop etc).

 

The first can either be a seperate fixture, with lamp and colour changer included, or can be a scroller attached to a generic lantern.

 

For a 200, either a 12/24, or a 24/48, this would be much easier, as even if each scroller was seperate it would only take up 1 channel per unit.

 

Ultimately, this depends on how many spare channels you have on your desk, and again your budget.

 

In terms of

How would we link it up? And finally, what kind of lights would you recommend and where would be the best place to buy them?

Have a look through the wiki and the search function, as it is all relatively simple, and has come up time and again before.

 

2) My band are starting to get quite good and im thinking of getting some equipment for us. Among that would be some lights. Im not too sure what id want etc. Id want some pars but also some more effect type lights (like above but on a smaller scale). What kind of lights would you recommend (on a fairly small budget) and where from again.

To start with, I would go with getting hold of some par cans, dimmers, control, cables, stands, colour.... the list goes on. Over time you will be able to build it up, but it would be a large initial investment to have a complete rig, even for a relatively small venue. As well as this, there is the need for continued expense in terms of maintainance which will probably need about 40% of your budget reserved for.

 

Hope this all makes sense, but I'm going to get some sleep now and will look at this again in the morning.

[woody74]

Point #17 from the FAQ will get you started.

 

-w

[kikabyte]

HI, just wanted to add my thoughts.

 

I play in a band that have been gigging for about a year now. When we first started out, we bought a Ryder 4 channel foot controller, 8 par 56 cans, 2 x lighting stands , colour gels, and all the cables. The rig cost us around the £400 mark.

 

The novelty of having the lighting soon wears off after the fact that it takes you 20 mins to rig them all up, and plug everything in. Not to mension the space the stands use up.

 

We recently spent just under £100 on three small all in one 60 watt sound to light devices that can be put up in any venue, just to give a bit of an effect. Obviusly these arnt very bright, but are in some cases, better than nothing at all!

 

 

But recently, we've scrapped the whole par can idea and bought ourselves one Acme I Colour. You plug it in to the mains, and it runs sound to light, and when you get a bit more advanced, it can be added into your DMX show. It has 4 x 500 watt bulbs, which give off enough light to flood the entire stage, and even give a great effect when placed at the side.

 

So from my expericence, save yourself some time, space and money and look at something like the iColour, because although the par cans look quite profesional, it soons becomes very annoying if your playing twice a week!

 

http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_hl40_dmx_compact.htm

£104.00, Bulbs included, around £7 for postage, get one, try it, and see if you need another one!

[Dayve]

Thanks for all the advice.

 

If anyone has any more recomendations it will be greatly apprechiated.

 

Thanks for all the advice so far.

 

Also, if anyone can tell me some good suppliers of lights and pars etc.

 

 

Just a little addition: Ive seen these http://www.cybermarket.co.uk/ishop/923/shopscr5807.html - has anyone ever used these or tryed them out. I saw them and they look okish for the money - anyone ever tryed them though.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[mumbles]

Just a little addition: Ive seen these http://www.cybermarket.co.uk/ishop/923/shopscr5807.html - has anyone ever used these or tryed them out. I saw them and they look okish for the money - anyone ever tryed them though.

Have never use them, but used to use something vaguely similar.

 

It depends on what you want them to do, as to whether they are worth it. For your school, I wouldn't even consider it. They're not controlled, and won't really fit in with anything, as they're designed for discos etc. However, they can be better than nothing.

 

At 300w a piece, they would have difficulty fighting against a par can stage wash, and being sound to sh*te will do whatever they want, not taking into account what is on.

 

Personally I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole, as I don't see how I would ever use them, but then I've spent 8 years building up a rig, and have a range of DMX fixtures, from heads to LEDs so not really inkeeping.

 

Overall, it really depends on what you want to do, whether you want to get something to liven up your band's performances, or would prefer to wait a while and put the £140 towards something bigger and better in a few years.

[Dayve]

Cheers,

 

*Sorry, I didnt say - I meant them for my band*

 

Anyway, I might try and fnd someone who has them and ask.

 

How much do you recon I should spend on a decent set of lights for my band (pars, the lights mentioned above and a few more special effects lights) - I dont know how much all this costs etc.

 

Also, any more recomendations on certain lights etc.

 

And finally, ive looked around for pars quite often but many of them dont have plugs on them etc, can someone direct me to a place that does them with kettle plugs on them.

 

Thanks :blink:

 

Dave

[mumbles]

And finally, ive looked around for pars quite often but many of them dont have plugs on them etc, can someone direct me to a place that does them with kettle plugs on them.

By this, can we understand that you already have dimmers and cables, using IEC connectors. If not, I really would recommend looking for something with 15A, or if necessary, then 5A sockets, purely from a perspective of interchangeability (sp?). If you are on kettle plugs, then I believe Thomann sells 56's with IECs, but can't find them anywhere in particular. Other this, I don't know of anyone who does, but I'm sure someone out there does, and that someone on here knows who.

 

My preference would still be for pars with 15A plugs, and then a tail for each of the dimmer outputs, going from a IEC plug to 15A socket. As I said this is only my preference, and depending on how much you already have, could require a bit of reinvestment, so might not be a good idea for you at the moment.

 

 

How much do you recon I should spend on a decent set of lights for my band (pars, the lights mentioned above and a few more special effects lights) - I dont know how much all this costs etc.

How long is a piece of string?

 

For 8 relatively cheap 56s (as your use will presumably be quite light and that they will be cared for) you're probably looking at about £250 for 8 cans and 8 lamps. Alternatively, for Thomas cans with CP87 lamps, from somewhere like SLX, then they're about £75 a piece.

 

Then, stands such as the Doughty club 35s will set you back about £90 each.

 

In terms of power, you can reckon on Betapack 3s at about £500 each, or cheaper dimmers from £100 each, depending on the specs. Add to this the cabling you need, lets say 120m of 1.5mm 3 core HO7 and 12 plugs and sockets for about £250. And say a Fat Frog for £2100, plus about £200 for DMX cables.

 

Then looking at effects, you can pick up some cheapish scanners for about £400 for 4 from somewhere such as Terralec or Thomann, or you can get Mac 250 entours for £2500 each.

 

So a purchase budget of anywhere between £4500 and infinity. Then of course, when this seems too much you can look at the sets sold of 4 56s, cables, a dimmer and a stand all of lower quality for about £200.

 

Sorry if this seems abit facetious, but only you know exactly what you're looking for, and only you know what budget you have. Your best bet is too make an ideal list and then to search through online price lists to find a total.

[Dayve]

You make a very good point there ** laughs out loud **

 

I dont have any equipment at the moment but ive seen some stuff.

 

I have seen some dimmers (IEC) for £65 - hence wy I wanted IEC lights as the dimmers etc are very cheap and being only younge budget is tight ** laughs out loud **.

 

Also seen some pars which dont have plugs on them - is it difficult to put IEC ones on them (and how safe would they be? :|)

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[kikabyte]

Ok, a few questions for you.

What kind of music do you play?

Do you have a dedicated sound to light engineer who's willing to sit there tweaking away?

What venue's are u playin? regular band bars, pubs, clubs, party's, weddings?

How much time do you have to set your lights up before the gig?

And seriously, what is your budget, I know its difficult to say, but how much is too much?

 

I'm not a skilled lighting technician, I'm just simply a guitarist, in a band, that was asking exactly the same questions as you one year ago, and experience has taught me a lot, that I will be happy to pas on to you!

[Dayve]

Ok, a few questions for you.

1) What kind of music do you play?

2) Do you have a dedicated sound to light engineer who's willing to sit there tweaking away?

3) What venue's are u playin? regular band bars, pubs, clubs, party's, weddings?

4) How much time do you have to set your lights up before the gig?

5) And seriously, what is your budget, I know its difficult to say, but how much is too much?

 

I'm not a skilled lighting technician, I'm just simply a guitarist, in a band, that was asking exactly the same questions as you one year ago, and experience has taught me a lot, that I will be happy to pas on to you!

 

1) Mainly rock, greenday, blink 182, red hot chillis, feeder, orson, hendrix etc - that type of genre

2) We dont have any one but I can get someone most likely

3) We dont do much atm but we plan to in the future, we expect to do things like bars, pubs, partys, quite small venues

4) It obviously depends, some time we could have 5 hours, sometime 5 minutes but I am quite skilled at setting most equipment up and I can easily get quite a bit up quickly.

5) I dont have a budget (mainly as I dont have any money right now), im aiming for about £500ish but im quite flexible tbh.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[kikabyte]

1) Mainly rock, greenday, blink 182, red hot chillis, feeder, orson, hendrix etc - that type of genre

 

Ok, looking at the lights you posted, do you see the audiences you are playing being covered in multi coloured 70's disco lights? They are more powerfull than most chipping in at 300watts, so they should cut through fairly well, but I honestly dont think their very well suited to a rock band. I would consider something a bit more strobe effect orientated. We play some weddings, and obviously music to suit, so when we're playing 'build me up buttercup' thoes sort of lights just seem to fit, but when we jump into Acquiesce, it doesnt fit very well. Moving Heads give bands a very professional image these days, the most audiences wont care if its a Martin something or other, all they care about is that it makes pretty patterns and looks impressive.

 

2) We dont have any one but I can get someone most likely

 

If you have a dedicated engineer, than you can consider either a hand operated switch/dimmer pack that can be adjusted to suit the song by him, or if you want to invest for the future, a nice lighting board, for him to fiddle with. If you can't bear to give away your earnings, then you need to consider something that can be operated from the stage, a foot controller works best.

 

3) We dont do much atm but we plan to in the future, we expect to do things like bars, pubs, partys, quite small venues

 

Bars a clubs dont give you much room for kit, let along lighting, so keeping your setup compact, and neat is going to be the key. Parties normally give you a bit more room, but they also expect you to provide some lighting out on the dance floor, unless you insist they book a separate disco, then u can use theirs!

 

4) How much time do you have to set your lights up before the gig?

 

Even though your quick, I guarantee the other members of the band will slow you down, as helpfull as their trying to be. But the key of this is that par cans arnt going to go up in a matter of minutes, all in one multi colour units will be as quick as switching your amp on!

 

I'll give you a few realist options based on some of the kit we own.

 

Flood lighting - As I said before, for the time and effort aspect of things, I feel the iColour are kool @ £104 each http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_hl40_dmx_compact.htm

 

Effect Lighting - I would head down the moving head route purely for the image. Either the Staville 250 moving heads @ £200 each http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_mv250h...ng_head_elc.htm or maybe the Funky Daddy-o's @ around £479 for two currently on Ebay. These are 250watt bulbs, which I find cut through ok, considering how much they cost.

 

Smoke Machine / Hazer - To see the beams of light you need some kind of haze / smoke. The choice is yours, but we recently bought a hazers, and it creates a fine mist that people wont realise is there until the lights come on. We've also got smoke machines, but we find they generally create a cloud of smoke, then vanish, not very long lasting! We recently bought this one http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_sd300_dunsterzeuger.htm for £60.

 

So for between £570 - £650 quid you have yourself a setup, that requires 4 plugs plugging into the mains (also you can use a mic / DMX lead to link the two moving heads for a synchronised show), and runs itself on sound to light. Give you a bit of a show, and take all of 15 mins to put up and more more crucially, PACK DOWN!

 

We have 4 moving heads, two scanners, a hazer, one I Colour and a couple of other DMX lights that we all link into my laptop, and then triggered by a foot controller onstage. No extra lighting / sound man to pay, and everything is fairly easy to set up. Everyone comments on how impressive it all looks. I must add, that only the only thing that we ever bother with in pubs is the iColour, coz the extra time and effort before and after the gig isnt worth it.

 

Sorry for the essay, family's company is growing very boring this year!

[Dayve]

Hey

 

Id never seen that website before today and after browsing it ive found some preety cool stuff.

 

I quite like the look of them iColours and I saw this deal with 2 of them which looks quite good: http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_hl40_dmx_set_2.htm

 

Also, saw this: http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_mobile_color_set.htm which look reasonable. Any thoughts on them?

 

Quite fancy 2 of them moving heads aswell, they look quite good (this is gona be a expensive year :|).

 

And then when funds permit I might get some pars just to give a bit of a background colour wash with a small desk which we can just set and leave.

 

Thanks :blink: - looks like someones gona have exactly same setup as you ** laughs out loud **.

 

Oh, finally, the website youve been linking too - are they reliable, good etc? Never used them before so just checking there all Ok.

 

Ty, Dave

[mumbles]

Moving Heads give bands a very professional image these days, the most audiences wont care if its a Martin something or other, all they care about is that it makes pretty patterns and looks impressive.

But you will when it packs up, and there is no service available, so you have to replace. Also, as you get bigger Will begin to want for certain features they miss, like a prism, or a zoom, or a DMX controlled focus etc.

 

If you have a dedicated engineer, than you can consider either a hand operated switch/dimmer pack that can be adjusted to suit the song by him, or if you want to invest for the future, a nice lighting board, for him to fiddle with.

If you are looking at any kind of DMX fixtures, invest in a desk. You can get a not too shabby, ie will do the hob, for a little over £500. Again, there isn't the whole support, user base and upgrade there as for the more expensive desks.

 

Flood lighting - As I said before, for the time and effort aspect of things, I feel the iColour are kool @ £104 each http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_hl40_dmx_compact.htm

 

Effect Lighting - I would head down the moving head route purely for the image. Either the Staville 250 moving heads @ £200 each http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_mv250h...ng_head_elc.htm or maybe the Funky Daddy-o's @ around £479 for two currently on Ebay. These are 250watt bulbs, which I find cut through ok, considering how much they cost.

Purely for the image, I wouldn't unless you have someone to op them. Any number of heads will look awful and detract from the image if they are purely on sound to light, and as you reach the end of a dark moody song, they are dancing round spinning the colour wheel.

 

Smoke Machine / Hazer - To see the beams of light you need some kind of haze / smoke. The choice is yours, but we recently bought a hazers, and it creates a fine mist that people wont realise is there until the lights come on. We've also got smoke machines, but we find they generally create a cloud of smoke, then vanish, not very long lasting! We recently bought this one http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_sd300_dunsterzeuger.htm for £60.

Entirely agree, though for this, a hazer would be better, as it shows up the beams without hindering the view. With this you have the difficulty of budget as a cheap DMX hazer is a good few hundred pounds.

 

also you can use a mic / DMX lead to link the two moving heads for a synchronised show), and runs itself on sound to light.

See my complaint about STL further up, and tie this in with your comments on how a light doing something that doesn't fit with the music/other lights will detract from the performance.

[Dayve]

Moving Heads give bands a very professional image these days, the most audiences wont care if its a Martin something or other, all they care about is that it makes pretty patterns and looks impressive.

But you will when it packs up, and there is no service available, so you have to replace. Also, as you get bigger Will begin to want for certain features they miss, like a prism, or a zoom, or a DMX controlled focus etc.

 

Sadly, the cheap ones are all I can afford anyway so the bigger brand ones are out of the question.

 

If you have a dedicated engineer, than you can consider either a hand operated switch/dimmer pack that can be adjusted to suit the song by him, or if you want to invest for the future, a nice lighting board, for him to fiddle with.

If you are looking at any kind of DMX fixtures, invest in a desk. You can get a not too shabby, ie will do the hob, for a little over £500. Again, there isn't the whole support, user base and upgrade there as for the more expensive desks.

I can haul people in to control stuff when need be, any desks you lot recomend which could control all the stuff which I have been mentioning?

 

Flood lighting - As I said before, for the time and effort aspect of things, I feel the iColour are kool @ £104 each http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_hl40_dmx_compact.htm

 

Effect Lighting - I would head down the moving head route purely for the image. Either the Staville 250 moving heads @ £200 each http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_mv250h...ng_head_elc.htm or maybe the Funky Daddy-o's @ around £479 for two currently on Ebay. These are 250watt bulbs, which I find cut through ok, considering how much they cost.

Purely for the image, I wouldn't unless you have someone to op them. Any number of heads will look awful and detract from the image if they are purely on sound to light, and as you reach the end of a dark moody song, they are dancing round spinning the colour wheel.

** laughs out loud **, quite agree there - ill probley get some and if they are like that I will get someone to control them.

 

Smoke Machine / Hazer - To see the beams of light you need some kind of haze / smoke. The choice is yours, but we recently bought a hazers, and it creates a fine mist that people wont realise is there until the lights come on. We've also got smoke machines, but we find they generally create a cloud of smoke, then vanish, not very long lasting! We recently bought this one http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_sd300_dunsterzeuger.htm for £60.

Entirely agree, though for this, a hazer would be better, as it shows up the beams without hindering the view. With this you have the difficulty of budget as a cheap DMX hazer is a good few hundred pounds.

 

Again, the cheap stuff has to do me as I am on a tight budget.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave