Attributing one light to another

[burgesg]

Hi,

 

I recently discovered when messing around with our board at school that a channel with a light on it could be attributed to another. Our theatre technician did not realise this and we both failed to come up with any reasons where this feature may be of use. Can anybody think where it might be useful?

[Ynot]

Hi,

 

I recently discovered when messing around with our board at school that a channel with a light on it could be attributed to another. Our theatre technician did not realise this and we both failed to come up with any reasons where this feature may be of use. Can anybody think where it might be useful?

Not quite sure what you mean here, but I'll give it a go.

 

Most larger DMX desks (and some smaller ones) these days will have the option of soft-patching dimmers to channels.

The dimmer is the hardware in your rack room, the channel being the fader or circuit you bring up if you type "channel 1 @ FULL"

Default scenario is channel 1 is patched to dimmer 1, up to the maximum dimmers you have.

 

However, it is mostly preferable to group similar lanterns together - for example, our front of house profile bar has 15 lanterns, in three groups of five different colours - eg Red, Blue, Green, Purple, Amber, then Red, Blue, Green, Purple, Amber again etc.

These are sitting on dimmers with DMX ccts 26 thru 40, but to give me an easier time when programming, I group (eg) the reds on desk channels 1, 2 and 3, the blues on channels 4, 5 and 6, and so on. That means I can type 1 thru 3 @ FULL, instead of typing 26 AND 31 AND 36 @ FULL.

 

Get the idea?

[burgesg]

Sorry wasn't sure if I had explained it right. Its like you attriubte a scroller to the lights in on for simplicity. So, for example, a scroller might be on channel 20 and the light it is on is on channel 10 so you attribute the scroller to channel 10. Then, once you have selected channel 10, you can also change the colour of the scroller. I found that you could do the same but instead of a scroller do it with another latern. Anyone know of what use this might be?

[Ynot]

Sorry wasn't sure if I had explained it right. Its like you attriubte a scroller to the lights in on for simplicity. So, for example, a scroller might be on channel 20 and the light it is on is on channel 10 so you attribute the scroller to channel 10. Then, once you have selected channel 10, you can also change the colour of the scroller. I found that you could do the same but instead of a scroller do it with another latern. Anyone know of what use this might be?

Nope - still not quite with you!

What desk is this?

 

It's usual to be able to assign the scroller DMX channel to the lantern channel but in such a way as to allow easy control of both and keep them linked on screen.

For excample, our Strand 300 can assign the scroller attached to desk channel 10 to channel 10.2. This then is displayed on screen with 10.2 underneath the channel 10, so I can easily see what the lantern's doing AND what colour is set on the scroller at one glance.

This is done by telling the desk that if the scroller is set to DMX 20, then it needs to be patched to channel 10.2.

 

Any more help??

 

TD

[burgesg]

thats near to what I am saying. I mean exactly what you said about the scrollers and am trying to say that you can do the same with a regular channel with laterns on it.

[paulears]

ynot explained it?

 

One thing you do need to do is get the terminology right - desk channels, DMX channels patching and attributes.

 

So the number 1 fader is only DMX channel 1 for convenience, it can be patched to any DMX channel. It's actually a touch more complicated on more sophisticated desks where the faders become submasters, so you could have desk channel 1 (bashed up on the keypad) working a Fresnel on dimmer (DMX) channel 22, but also being worked by sub master 3. I don't want to complicate it further, but some rock and roll desks can get even more tricky.

 

The process of selecting which DMX channel works from which fader is called patching. Attributes are things that a channel can do other than brightness. So on some desks, you can make channel one a par can channel with a scroller on it. raising the fader, brings it up. The desk could be patched to offer control of the colour too (but on a different DMX channel, to suit the scroller) - so bringing up channel one and pushing blue scolls to that colour.

 

Having the ability to control multiple destinations is pretty common - as ynot said, one fader could bring up all the red lights, scrolling any not on red, to it.

 

I have a suspicion that we may have not quite understood what you mean.

 

Tell us what desk it is and what exactly you are doing - then we can go a bit further. When patching this way, it's vital to write it down - as often a light will stay on, even if you bring the fader down - you don't always remember that you also patched the same lantern to a different desk channel!

have we got it right?

[Ynot]

thats near to what I am saying. I mean exactly what you said about the scrollers and am trying to say that you can do the same with a regular channel with laterns on it.

Well hopefully I've shown you what the point of cross-patching is on the desk (which you've yet to tell us what it is )

The whole point of patching is to give a high degree of flexibility in what the desk can talk to.

When you progress to multi-channel DMX fixtures, that will open up a raft of additional attributes under a single desk channel (colour, pan, tilt, gobo, iris, zoom, focus, etc etc), all of which are assigned in one way or another at DMX level.

[burgesg]

ynot explained it?

 

One thing you do need to do is get the terminology right - desk channels, DMX channels patching and attributes.

 

So the number 1 fader is only DMX channel 1 for convenience, it can be patched to any DMX channel. It's actually a touch more complicated on more sophisticated desks where the faders become submasters, so you could have desk channel 1 (bashed up on the keypad) working a Fresnel on dimmer (DMX) channel 22, but also being worked by sub master 3. I don't want to complicate it further, but some rock and roll desks can get even more tricky.

 

The process of selecting which DMX channel works from which fader is called patching. Attributes are things that a channel can do other than brightness. So on some desks, you can make channel one a par can channel with a scroller on it. raising the fader, brings it up. The desk could be patched to offer control of the colour too (but on a different DMX channel, to suit the scroller) - so bringing up channel one and pushing blue scolls to that colour.

 

Having the ability to control multiple destinations is pretty common - as ynot said, one fader could bring up all the red lights, scrolling any not on red, to it.

 

I have a suspicion that we may have not quite understood what you mean.

 

Tell us what desk it is and what exactly you are doing - then we can go a bit further. When patching this way, it's vital to write it down - as often a light will stay on, even if you bring the fader down - you don't always remember that you also patched the same lantern to a different desk channel!

have we got it right?

 

Hi,

 

thanks for explaining everything for me. I am pretty sure I did explain it correctly although maybe not too well. Basically, I found out that you can patch any desk channel to any other desk channel no matter what is on it (I.e a DMX for scroller or a dimmer). LIke when you patch a scroller on desk channel number 100 to a latern on desk channel 20. Instead what I am doing is patching a latern on channel 100 to another latern to a different latern on 20. Does this make sense? So effectively I can control two different laterns from one channel (but they're not paired so they can be at different levels). Hope I haven't completely confused everything. If I have please forget it ** laughs out loud **.

 

 

Forgot to add that I am pretty sure it is a strand 530.

[paulears]

I'm really sorry, but this is as clear as mud. Please tell us what the desk is?

[Tom R]

The way that you describe this is quite blurred but here goes...

 

I think this may have been mentioned before but...soft patching...this allows you to patch more than one fixture to one channel. This could be useful if you will always want 2 fixtures to come on at the same time (useful when programming chases and cant patch at the dimmers). It is also useful if you have, say, more dimmer chans than faders on the desk - allowing you to double up effectively and save desk chans...

[Ynot]

Basically, I found out that you can patch any desk channel to any other desk channel no matter what is on it (I.e a DMX for scroller or a dimmer). LIke when you patch a scroller on desk channel number 100 to a latern on desk channel 20. Instead what I am doing is patching a latern on channel 100 to another latern to a different latern on 20. Does this make sense? So effectively I can control two different laterns from one channel (but they're not paired so they can be at different levels).

The answer is YES you can control two lanterns (or indeed EVERY lantern you have if you so desire) from a single fader but NO, they will always be faded to the same level. (There is a way of setting the max level of one channel to a lower limit than full, so that you could say they'd be fadable seperately, but let's not go there just yet!!).

 

Basically if I assign DMX CHANNELS 10, 13, 25 and 432 to desk channel 1, then desk channel 1 will bring all four of those DMX channels (and the dimmers assigned to them) to the same level when you pull up the fader, or hit 1 @ FULL.

Forgot to add that I am pretty sure it is a strand 530.

<chuckles, Paul missed this line! ;)>

[tom_the_LD]

Also useful if you have a dimmer which does not have 2 sockets per channel even though I think most do

[Ynot]

I think I know what he means. Are you basically saying that it is the equivelent as physically going and moving the plugs loaction onto another channel on the dimmer rack. IE the same as getting the plug for the light on channel 100, unplugging it and plugging it into the second socket on channel 20 (I think you can do this on most dimmer racks as I believe most dimmer racks have 2 lines of sockets for controlling 2 lights off 1 channel)

What you describe is, in a way, what we're saying - patching is patching, whether you're moving 15A plugs or assigning channels on the desk.

if this is the case it could be for incase the dimmer rack does only have 1 plug on each channel instead of 2 and therefore can control 2 lights off 1 channel without using adapters.

 

I imagine this function would also be used if you wanted to use the faders as a form of submaster

In fact it's useful for all sorts of things!!

 

 

Also useful if you have a dimmer which does not have 2 sockets per channel even though I think most do

Erm, Tom - please don't do that!

I just replied to your post, and you've just wiped out 90% of your original reply!!

Maybe a line or two, but that was a bit over-eager!!

[tom_the_LD]

Didnt mean to - I apologise

[Andrew C]

Basically if I assign DMX CHANNELS 10, 13, 25 and 432 to desk channel 1, then desk channel 1 will bring all four of those DMX channels (and the dimmers assigned to them) to the same level when you pull up the fader, or hit 1 @ FULL.

Or with a proper desk, proportional to the pre-set patch level and the channel level. That said, I too think the question and subsequent amplifications are as clear as mud...