compressor and graphic problem

[blackbeast250]

Hi , I have just got a new rack set up for myself , solo guitar/vocals, I have a dbx 1066 , and a klarkteknik dn370,I have put the kt in line between the amp and mixer ,I have the gain set to 0db, and am not using the notch filters yet, but its not very good /responsive, I mainly wanted it for eliminating feedback on my mic , and taking some low end problem frequencies out , but it makes the sound bad, how should this work ? would inserting it be better , either in the main inserts or one side on my guitar channel , and the other on the mic?

Also my dbx 1066 makes both vocal and guitar sound worse , does anyone have any precise settings for this compressor for vocals and guitar , ie exactly where to have all the dials and buttons ,its usually good on the guitar , but im definetly doing something wrong on the vocal , it seems to cause loads of feedback , but when I depress the sc enable button , and the mon enable button it takes out the compressor, but sounds better, any help with either of these machines would be greatly appreciated, thanks , ROBIN.

[paulears]

not quite sure what you mean when you say it makes the sound worse. Anything you stick in to the chain that sicks lumps out makes it sound worse - after all, you're throwing bits away - if the aim is volume, then yes, you can get more, but at a cost - you have to work out where your limit is.

 

A compressor often makes things sound worse - but ask why you want to do it - it will almost certainly be at odds with reducing feedback, so adding compression, even modest amounts make feedback worse, so you use the eq to suck even more out.

 

What did you buy it for, actually?

[Pete J]

Hi Robin,

I hope this is the kind of info you were after... sorry if you already know all this...

Having the EQ between mixer and amp should be fine. When you set up turn up your mixer output until system is about to feedback. Then go along the graphic EQ and push each slider up one at a time. When you find one that causes the most obvious feedback frequency take that slider down to (say) -4dB. You should then be able to turn up the system a little more and do the same until you find the next frequency causing a problem. With 2 or 3 (don't go mad!) problem frequencies knocked out then turn down your system a bit and you should find you can operate at higher levels than before you got your graphic EQ.

The compressor should be inserted across the individual channel of the instrument you want to compress. Set the attack and release to auto, turn the threshold to maximum and start with a fairly gentle ratio (2 or 2.5:1). Then wind the threshold down until you see the compressor just starting to work when you strum / sing a loud blast. Use this carefully though.. only on things that need it, and don't over-compress.. it will limit your level before feedback.

Best of luck,

Pete

[blackbeast250]

Hi Paulears , thanks for your reply ,I bought it in conjunction with an entire new system , and am not an engineer but a musician,and I assumed seemingly wrongly that a compressor would make the vocal sound better, punchier and limit it on peaks, and that the equaliser would help eliminate unwanted frequencies and make the system sound better, if these things only make systems sound worse why do people use them? just looking for advice on how best to use them , thanks.

 

I hope this is the kind of info you were after... sorry if you already know all this...

Thanks pete , this sounds helpful, just a few more questions, where should I set the gain on the equaliser , and should I open both mic and guitar channell while performing this operation , or should I get a flat responce mic and use that , also with both speakers being in different positions should I plug them in one at a time and do each one seperatly , thanks again. Robin

 

Moderation: over-quoting removed - there's generally no need to quote the entire previous post (and the posts that were quoted within it!) - by all means quote the relevant lines, but be selective please!

[adamburgess]

As far as the EQ gain goes:

 

Play a CD or whatever thru the desk at a normal level with the EQ's bypass button engaged.

Turn the gain down on the EQ.

Hit the bypass button on the EQ again and increase the gain so the CD is the same volume as before.

 

That should get you somewhere near.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Adam

[Pete J]

Hi,

1. I would say graphic EQ gain settings at 0dB (probably about 12 o'clock)

2. Yep... you should have both guitar and vocal on and up, but you can experiment with one at a time. If you find you are getting lots more feedback from one than the other then try and get rid of it on the mixer channel. In a similar way you can turn up the mid range cut/boost pot on the desk channel of the problem instrument and then use the sweep to find where the feedback is. Then turn the gain down (again say -4dB) to cut out the problem area. This should also make the instrument sound better, given there was too much of that area before.

3. Do graphic EQ stuff with both speakers at the same time. When you push the sliders up you can do left and right at the same time. Given the system you're using I think it would be OK to just find the problem frequecies with one side of the graphic and match that on the other side.

4. Don't panic. This may sound very complicated, but as you do more you'll find that the process becomes much more intuitive.

Best,

Pete.

[Bobbsy]

Hi Paulears , thanks for your reply ,I bought it in conjunction with an entire new system , and am not an engineer but a musician,and I assumed seemingly wrongly that a compressor would make the vocal sound better, punchier and limit it on peaks, and that the equaliser would help eliminate unwanted frequencies and make the system sound better, if these things only make systems sound worse why do people use them? just looking for advice on how best to use them , thanks.

 

They're used (or at least should be!) when there's a specific sonic reason for them...and then they're set up, as far as possible, to only effect the part of the sound that needs adjusting.

 

As for the equaliser, there's no such thing as "unwanted frequencies" but what can happen is that, due to deficiencies in the sound system (usually the speakers or their interaction with the room) there are frequencies that are too loud or too quiet. The GEQ can be used to compensate (to some extent) for these problems. The other reason that a GEQ is often used is feedback control...the problem frequency(ies) are determined and backed off slightly to allow more gain elsewhere before feedback starts. However, this doesn't make your overall sound "better"....except that music always sounds better than feedback! (I'll exclude Jimi Hendrix from that last statement!) As paulears said, the idea situation is always no processing but often the compromise is to include some for the overall good of the mix.

 

Compression is a very tricky issue. It's a useful tool but I wouldn't describe it as making a voice "punchier". If anything, it's opposite effect...it removes dynamic range by raising the quiet bits and lopping off the loudest bits. As such it can help keep voice consistantly above the music and also aid intelligibility. Again...it's a tool to use when there's a specific reason, but it's not a magic bullet to put on every voice every time.

 

For fairly detailed background on how to use both EQ and Dynamics processing, I often recommend the good library of tech documents on the Rane website. They have sections both on EQ and on Compression limiting which as enough detail to be useful but which is written for the layman. Try http://www.rane.com/library.html

 

Hope this helps

 

Bob

[blackbeast250]

Thanks folks will be trying out a few of your tips over the next few days, much appreciated , Robin.