Carrying an offensive weapon

[blackbird]

Andy is referring to a specific event (reported in The Stage) where a theatre technician was indeed arrested and charged for having a Leatherman on him.

 

Just out of interest, when was this in the Stage - I can't find it on the website and seem to have missed the article in the paper.

[steveo]

I know the Technician in question as I am sure a few of you do.

 

This incident could happen to any one of us. As a matter of precaution the Leatherman that has been a permanent fixture to my side (I even got married with it on my belt), now resides on my bedside table unless I am going on site and is removed once I leave site. I cannot run the risk of being stoppped for carrying an offensive weapon on my belt.

 

As a matter of course a comment from my uncle who is a copper states that a screwdriver in your back pocket (even a small terminal screwdriver) can be classified as an offensive weapon.

[Ekij]

I thought you were permitted up to a three inch blade (in the UK) before it became an "offensive weapon"?

I'm rarely (if ever) without my mini Swiss Army Classic knife

Very concerned to hear I am "carrying" :D

[AndrewR]

Well according to the 1988 criminal justice act: (on the subject of the offence of carrying an offensive weapon in a public place)

 

Articles with blades or points and offensive weapons

 

 

139.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

 

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

 

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

 

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

 

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

© as part of any national costume.

 

from http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880033_en_1.htm scroll down to 139.

 

I'm not a lawyer but to me that reads as it being reasonable to wear your leatherman to and from work.

 

But I'm not a lawyer :D

[jexjexjex]

I'm not a lawyer but to me that reads as it being reasonable to wear your leatherman to and from work.

 

But I'm not a lawyer

 

I'd go with that.

 

Must admit that I wear my Leatherman all the time, but I've just checked the blades and they're all 2 & 3/4 inches long, so I'm OK :)

 

A solicitor friend of mine also reckons that, by the time you actually got your Leatherman, Swissy or Gerbil out of it's carrier and opened one of the blades up (In self defence of course M'lud...)- your assailant would have already kicked the c**p out of you or stabbed you with the 14" dagger that he was carrying "for religous reasons" (such as on a drunken Friday night out with the neds!)

 

Ergo, any Sherrif with a brain between his ears should throw a charge of simple possession/carrying one of these out the door...

 

Obviously, it's different story of you're flashing the blade around in the middle of the High Street though, regardless of how long or short the blade is.

 

Last thought - I was allowed onto the Millennium Eye with mine fixed to my belt with no questions asked - and that was after the standard body search!

[GridGirl]

I wear my Gerber on my belt on the tube daily - I've never had a problem. I don't ever take it out and start opening the blades or anything, I suspect that would be asking for trouble, but I have to admit that I'm a bit surprised that I've never even been asked why I'm carrying it by anybody.

[dosxuk]

While in Athens they banned Leathemans / other similar tools from being brought onto site a few days before the games started. Luckily they warned us the day before the ban came into place (probably they could imagine the outcry if all the technicians got told to throw them in a bin). Don't think anyone left with their letherman that night!

[gareth]

I'm a bit surprised that I've never even been asked why I'm carrying it by anybody.

Presumably you wear it on your belt in a way that's fairly discreet, and not obvious to the 'casual observer'? I guess that might be why you've never been asked about it - no-one's noticed! On the occasions that I have my Leatherman attached to my person, it's almost always in such a place that it's concealed by another item of clothing covering it up (jumper, bottom of shirt, etc.). At times when I've been out into the 'real world' with Leatherman attached (on a train on the way to a gig, or perhaps wandering around a city centre during a fit-up lunch-break), I've never had anyone (Old Bill or otherwise) question it or comment on it in any way.

 

But having said that, I only ever have it on my belt when I'm actually working and anticipate needing it, or am travelling directly to a job which involves going straight onto site to start work immediately on arrival. On the other hand, the sort of irritating a*sehole who makes sure that they wear their Leatherman, Gerber, laminate, Sharpie-on-a-lanyard, Maglite, etc. at all times, and in a way which is carefully engineered to ensure that everyone notices the presence of said items about their person in that incredibly annoying "look at me, I'm a technician, am I cool or what" personality-substitute sort of way, is just asking to get pulled up for it.

[tokm]

I too missed the article in the Stage.

 

What was the exact reason given as to why the theatre technician was arrested? Was it just because some over eager police man saw it on his belt and went 'oh no someone with a weapon ' and arrested him. Or was it a little more in depth than that, i.e. he accidentally got it out in public..?

 

Also, whats the situation currently, was he charged? Did it all go to court?

 

Sorry for sounding ignorant, just like the O/P said, its not on the stage website for some reason.

 

Thanks.

 

Tom

[eviljohn2]

It seems a bit strange as I was also under the impression that a reasonable multitool isn't a problem as long as you've got a sensible reason for having it. Same as carrying kitchen knives or gardening tools isn't a problem as long as you're not brandishing them around...

 

Policeman actually have to carry a knife on their person whilst they're out "on the beat" as I recall and most seem to choose a Leatherman as the most flexible and sensible option.

[Ekij]

So a pen knife is OK.

At what point does a pocket knife stop being a pen knife?

When it has a lockable blade?

When the blade doesn't fold out?

Is a Leatherman a "pen knife"?

[pete LD]

At Birmingham new st station they had a metal dector put in and a " 0 tolerance" on any weapons or tools etc. several of the hippodrome crew had been stopped and told don't do it again?! they where even after things in bags, so how where you meant to get any get out kit (podger quad aj etc)to work?. the theatre management told people to leave them in a locker. fine for full timers but what about the casuals who work in other places?

[djw1981]

I guess the main point is that there are very very few situations in which you need to be carrying a penknife in a readily accessible position on your person in a public place. In a rucksack / kit bag / toolbox is one thing, but on your belt / keyring is something different since it implies that you think you may need to use it imminently. In a bag/toolbox indicates a need to use it later.

 

Also re the issue of how long it takes to get the blade out, the very presence of a knife / its being waved around is enough to scare some people into doing what you want / giving up your phone, money etc. Those of us who are young and fit might like to take our chances running away while someone gets the blade out, but older people, or people who have been subject to knife crime before maybe traumatised such that they cannot.

 

Rather as anyone carrying a gun in a public place should do so in a case, maybe a little self-restraint and common sense, as described by many above would not go amiss. The freedom of the individual surely come secodnd to the freedom of society and with every right (ie the right to own a knife without licence) comes a responsibility (to use it safely and in a mannwer which does not cause distress to others). Something which is only be too clear after the events of today at airports throughout the Uk / world.

[Guest lightnix]

Yes, a Leatherman Wave is an offencive weapon, because it has a blade of over three inches in length.

 

Yes, I carry one everywhere except:-

a) On aeroplanes

b) In the bath / shower

c) In bed

 

If it did ever wind up in court I'd plead guilty and maybe ask for around 3,650 similar offences to be taken into consideration, on the grounds that I'd been breaking the law for about 10 years, but in all that time hadn't actually stabbed anyone.

 

No, I have never been and am not particularly worried about being arrested. I generally have a good excu valid reason for carrying one. I just wonder if the technician concerned did "something else", maybe something quite innocent, that attracted the Law's attention. I've had my collar felt a few times, in each case they had a good reason (built up area, after dark, unshaven appearance, rather large bag / tool kit, etc.) and I felt all the better protected for their attentions.

 

As it is, it's not usually visible / accessible, lying under the bottom of either a long T-shirt or jacket; it's not like I'm wearing it blade out on my sleeve. Anyway, I had to derig a "sensitive" conference with a "middle-eastern" flava last year. Despite carrying my offencive weapon (and having a technically out-of-date pass and no other ID and wearing a faded T-shirt with the old company logo on it), I still managed to get through the 100m thick security wall (with X-ray searches & metal detectors) without any hold ups. Maybe it was the greying hair (at least it's of some use)

 

I agree 100% with the view that trying to use a Wave in self defence is a great way to lose a kidney; IIRC about a third of stabbings are done with the victims own weapon.

[Brian]

Moderation: It should come as no suprise to anyone who posted here in the last 12 hours that this topic now contains 10 hidden posts out of a total of 24. I'm not going to quote T&Cs at you: you are all old enough to know that that sort of thing doesn't have a place here.

 

The topic under discussion is 'Carrying an offensive weapon'...