Wireless in-ear monitors

[Simon MFR]

My band want E3's or similar for a large outdoor event next month and I'm guessing that the wireless signals would be sent from the desk which would be a considerable distance from FOH. Are wireless systems like these in place and are they reliable? Or would the ear-peices be sent via the on-stage multicore? (As previously mentioned my experience of live sound is negotiable so please forgive my ignorance)

 

:** laughs out loud **:

[jimbo7744]

Hi Simon,

 

In most cases the monitor engineer on stage would be sending the perfomers mix to the transmitters. Unless the monitors on stage are being sent from FOH then obviously there shouldn't be any problems with distance.

If the stage monitors are being fed from FOH then I would suggest sending the signal on returns or on a separate multi back to stage as the last thing you want is a p*ssed off band having their mix dropping out.

[MarkPAman]

Hi Simon

 

It's "normal" for the transmitter to be at the stage end, as it is run from the monitor desk.

If there is no monitor desk at the gig you're doing, then I think you should find that the FOH desk will be close enough to the stage.

Running signal down the multicore to the transmitter would mean that your engineer would not be able to see the metering on the transmitter or get at at the controls.

 

IEMs do take some getting used to though.If you have not yet giged with them, then I sugest you hire or borrow some to see if they work for you. Some people don't get on with them at all.

 

See if you can guess who could lend you a set? :D

 

 

Can I have a blue dot please? :** laughs out loud **:

 

Edit. Too slow! I'll measure outdoor distance for my set tomorrow, but I know I've got 30m+ through walls etc

[StevieR]

Additionally, if its a large stage (e.g festival, big touring act) then you will normally find one or two high gain directional antennas in use. These produce a better RF signal to the stage rather than the small antennas supplied with the TX's.

 

Also, if multiple IEM's are being used, it is also common to use an Antenna combiner to allow all the signals to be sent from a single, directional antenna.

 

It you are mixing the mons from FOH and want to keep the transmitters beside you then it may be worthwhile using an antenna combiner and - providing the distance is not too great - running the combined signal down to the stage on low-loss URM67 cable with a directional antenna at the end.

 

HTH

 

Steve

[MarkPAman]

As promised:

Outside, line of sight, Trantec S4000 with the supplied antenna.

In no way a scientific test, but I just got about 70m from the transmitter before it started dropping out.

[paulears]

I'm a little confused by some of the info here.

 

Assuming the tx is lined up properly, then there are few user controls that need adjustment during the show, so instead of plugging up to an amp rack for real monitors, plug up to the IEM rack.

 

RF is rarely an issue with IEMS - certainly not in my experience. It's quite easy for the txs to be cited in free space. Directional aerials may be useful if the tx rack is (daftly) positioned FOH, but the unpredictable nature of the performers means an omni radiation pattern is most useful. the 3-5 dB or so gain with small yagis isn't really worth it, as the odd lobes in the radiation pattern can make weak spots worse - remembering no diversity get out of trouble.

 

Aerial combiners - hmm. Fair enough, having a single aerial, maybe hanging from the truss can create a more even field strangth accross the performance area, but losses in the cable (recent thread on that somewhere) especially with URM67 mean that for more than 10m or so the benefit gets kind of lost. Combining rf signals needs devices properly designed - some manufacturers don't even make them, as they can be (if reasonable loss figures are required) rather expensive and difficult to set up devices. The whole subject of RF combining is troublesome, and requires expensive kit to align properly. Swapping an IEM frequency gets problematic when you then have to retune your combiner. For those unfamiliar with this kind of thing, is that a simple passive combiner isn't any good - they are two way devices, so signal A comes in, goes out of the output - the trouble is it also goes out of input B. So internally the device has to route each input frequency through, while rejecting the other frequencies in use. This requires high Q filtering - often mechanical devices using tuned cavities - and re-tuning these things is a pain in the bum. they also don't travel well unless mounted in properly designed cases. The other issue with combiners is unwanted RF products. Unless the combiner also has low pass filtering built in, there may be a 'new' rf frequency generated internally at mathematical sum/difference frequencies. Even if filtered out, this is also wasted power - which is the whole point in the first place.

 

As far as I'm aware, Sennheiser don't make any form of transmitter splitter, neither do Shure or Trantec? I'd love to be wrong - but I have never seen one

[MarkPAman]

Have to agree with Paul, now that I've taken the thing out of it's box again. Once set up there are not really any controls you would alter during a performance. So put it on stage.

I just don't like to leave anything with controls on where it could get fiddled with, but then I do it with amps all the time! :** laughs out loud **:

[Sound Man]

Do you have to use wireless? Are any of the performers stationary, if so could they not use wired in-ears connected to a headphone amp on the stage.

 

Also take plenty of spare batteries with you, these wireless systems eat them.

[Simon MFR]

Trantec S4000 'tested' today at around seventy metres, out of line of sight of antenna, and even at this outdoor gig, that will be more than enough. I was surprised at the clarity, even if the music being played sucked!

 

I think by routing one of the monitor sends through the transmitter may even sort this one out. The IEM's are specifically for the keyboard player (its a preferance thing) and I think I may like to have them too....out with the E3's!! I think the overall distance from FOH to SF wont more more than 30 metres, and I dont seem to recall there being a separate monitor desk, do they usually have these at low-key outdoor sets?

 

Thankyou Mark, blue dots all round! :blink:

[SeanT]

Also take plenty of spare batteries with you, these wireless systems eat them.

 

At the fairly predictable rate of one every eight hours, change at six to be safe?

[Shez]

The IEM's are specifically for the keyboard player (its a preferance thing) and I think I may like to have them too....

 

Is his keyboard wireless? If not, is there really a need for him to be? A headphone amp is far cheaper & more reliable than a wireless system...

[djwiltsh]

The IEM's are specifically for the keyboard player (its a preferance thing) and I think I may like to have them too....

 

Is his keyboard wireless? If not, is there really a need for him to be? A headphone amp is far cheaper & more reliable than a wireless system...

 

Just because an instrument isn't wireless doesn't mean that the monitors shouldn't be either in my opinion. Obviously I am not disagreeing with you re costs etc, but it is nice sometimes not to feel "tied down", even if you do play a "static" instrument.

 

I am a keyboard player in my spare time, plus I do a bit of sound/lights, and I have some Shure wireless IEMs that I brought a few years ago. I got wireless because I had a special deal as I was working in a music shop at the time, so I could get them for the retail price of wired. I play in church and it is great to be able to quickly get on/off stage etc without having to worry about taking headphones off, putting them down safely, tripping over the wire etc.

 

Dan