Rigging in small schools

[Dweeks]

Hi guys,

 

Short story, my father is a drama teacher at a small primary school and about once or twice a year they run small shows (with a few big ones... quite impressive for a primary school... anyway). However, they've just had a H&S bigwig around, and he has scared the headmaster...

 

One of the main issues he has raised is rigging with ladders. Ok, understandable, but what I don't understand is that at my work (Events venue), we are allowed to rig light objects (mobiles etc), as long as we are clamped to the truss with a harness.

 

So now we're stuck with an issue that we are not allowed legally to climb ladders to alter the lighting which was installed last year! The obvious cure is to be able to hire in a scaffolding tower, but the costs of this just wouldn't be justifiable to the school (for basic things like rigging lighting, displays etc). So we're stuck unable to legally access anything at heights.

 

I have the qualification to climb scaff towers, so the school wouldn't need to pay for training unless they want, but its the scaff tower which is a big cost (auditorium only takes 80 people).

 

We don't want to lose drama in the school, but unless we break the law, there is no way of rigging the lighting or anything other than step height!

 

Anyone got any suggestions? Funds to help with hire costs caused by H&S Paraphenalia? Any way we can take responsibility for our own actions? When we used to rig, we used lots of crash mats around the ladder in case of an accident.... Ok, not ideal, but it would have worked.

 

Are we not allowed to use ladders at all, or do they have to be specialist?

 

We're stuck in a quagmire now. I know they think they're doing it for the best, but H&S is getting ridiculous sometimes.

 

D

 

PS- I am well aware that they do it for the best, so please don't rant about how we could be taking uneccesary risks etc, when we used to rig, we calculated every risk, and if something was too risky, we wouldn't do it. Theyweren't even heavy lights, par 56's!

[DSA]

David,

 

You say that the lighting was installed last year. Just to confirm, was this a completely new install with IWBs for example, or was it a modernisation of some existing provision? If it was the former then I personally wonder if there is a case of "unfit for purpose" i.e. provision should have been made for bars which can be lowered to ground level for rigging, for example.

 

The simple way round this in the short term is to put together a generic rig which could cover the vast majority of shows, however as we all know, this is far from practical as you still need to get up there to perhaps change gels or PAT test etc.

 

Clearly this will be a fairly major issue, but if it was me then I would go back to the H&S advisor, and ask what he would recommend as a suitable replacement for the ladder access. You don't mention the height of the venue - but given that it has only 80 seats, I assume that it is relatively low.

 

As far as I understand it, the WAHR do not explicitly state that "thou shall not use ladders", but merely require all other suitable options to be explored first, and for the resulting access arrangement to be carefully justified on paper. Don't lose sight of the fact that a badly constructed scaffold tower could be more dangerous than a ladder...

 

Keep us informed of the situation, and remember that there is a lot of useful advice to be found on this forum for information.

 

David

[paulears]

So now we're stuck with an issue that we are not allowed legally to climb ladders to alter the lighting which was installed last year! The obvious cure is to be able to hire in a scaffolding tower, but the costs of this just wouldn't be justifiable to the school (for basic things like rigging lighting, displays etc). So we're stuck unable to legally access anything at heights.

 

You can buy loads of gadgets to let you legally focus lighting. The snag comes when people interpret the law in a poor or non-industry standard manner. As I understand it, you could buy an A Frame, or Zarges type ladder and use it for accessing the lighting. No Harness, not even a hard hat, just practical safety issues looked after. The problem seems to be that ladders are not suitable for use as a work platform. My interpretation is that climbing a ladder or pair of steps to colour and focus a light isn't work in this sesne of the word. Many venues still do this because it is the only practical way to get to some bars and booms. If scaffolding was available and was practical to use, then it makes sesne to use it. In a school hall with flat floor, access is temporary and short duration. Risk assessment may well show the risk is low and managable. With a competent person at the top, as far as I can see, no legislation or even guidelines are being broken. If the lighting bar was being removed or replaced then a proper access platform would be needed. To focus a lantern - I'll take the zarges route for myself, every time

 

A-Frames and Zarges type ladders are self-supporting - worth noting that I wouldn't consider a free standing ladder a suitable tool under these circumstances.

[Andrew C]

So now we're stuck with an issue that we are not allowed legally to climb ladders

 

We don't want to lose drama in the school, but unless we break the law, there is no way of rigging the lighting or anything other than step height!

 

crash mats around the ladder in case of an accident.... Ok, not ideal, but it would have worked.

 

Are we not allowed to use ladders at all, or do they have to be specialist?

Oh God, not another H&S idiot. I'd print out the H&S guidance on ladders and show it to the head, with the bit that says "ladders are NOT illegal" highlighted. However, loose the crashmats. Your method of working MUST prevent (so far as possible) a fall. Crash mats are a dangerous irrelevance.

[Dweeks]

So now we're stuck with an issue that we are not allowed legally to climb ladders

 

We don't want to lose drama in the school, but unless we break the law, there is no way of rigging the lighting or anything other than step height!

 

crash mats around the ladder in case of an accident.... Ok, not ideal, but it would have worked.

 

Are we not allowed to use ladders at all, or do they have to be specialist?

Oh God, not another H&S idiot. I'd print out the H&S guidance on ladders and show it to the head, with the bit that says "ladders are NOT illegal" highlighted. However, loose the crashmats. Your method of working MUST prevent (so far as possible) a fall. Crash mats are a dangerous irrelevance.

 

 

Of course.

 

 

To clarify, the system uses powerdrill bars, suitable of taking 1 lantern each (with a range of holes for bolts and nuts). There are 12 of these around the room. We've been using an A-Frame style ladder before-hand... obviously we wouldn't even consider using a free-standing ladder.

 

If we were able to persuade the headmaster, I suspect we'd have to replace the A-frame however as its technically a ladder for use in a gymnasium (altho structurally no different it seems), but it also is only just high enough to be safe. However, if I can find some documentation to show the headmaster that ladders are usable, I have no doubt I can persuade him to replace it with an industry standard A-Frame, for a fraction of the cost of a tower! Particurlarly as the coding systems of the other ladders means that about 3 have to be destroyed, simply due to an issue with labelling. Sigh.

 

This is going to cost the school thousands, and some of it is ridiculous legislation. Now no-body, not even caretaker is allowed on the roof to collect balls (a once a term job, but has to be done), without prior permission from head-office. I just wonder where this is going to end.... new ladders, new regulations etc....

[paulears]

Powerdrill bars - not something I've come accross - could you explain what these are? and are there any images?

 

Paul

[Lamplighter]

My interpretation is that climbing a ladder or pair of steps to colour and focus a light isn't work in this sense of the word.

Ladder manufacturers training course, HSE approved recently, " any single ascent should be less than 20 minutes" So using a suitable ladder or stepladder for cleaning a fitting, refocus or gel change is ok if no safer means of access is readily available, though under 16s is a different ballgame.

 

Brian

[peternewman]

Powerdrill bars - not something I've come across - could you explain what these are? and are there any images?

Possibly a mistype/misremembering of Powerdrive? Which usually implies T bars to me, but I don't know what their full product range is.

 

PN

[Andrew C]

Guessing a bit, but I have seen winches powered with a mains drill via a 1/2" drive. Looked a clever solution, one power source for several winches, and can be locked away for security too.

[Dweeks]

Hehe not quite:

 

 

##########

# # ____ L

##

#

#

#

 

 

Imagine the left handside is bolted to the wall, and where L is, you hang the lantern. They may well be made by Powerdrive thinking about it, slip of the tongue!

[mumbles]

Guessing a bit, but I have seen winches powered with a mains drill via a 1/2" drive. Looked a clever solution, one power source for several winches, and can be locked away for security too.

Sounds like a very good idea, but as Dweeks said they only take 1 lantern a bar, seems like quite a lot of trouble to fit winches. Also, when the school I work at from time to time has recently banned ladders and had to go and buy a geni lift, all because of an overzealous H+S person. If someone has suggested that there is safety risk with ladders, then it'll take a lot to convince the head otherwise.

 

EDIT: Damn, Dweeks got in before me, and the L brackets are a bugger to work with aren't they :D

[robloxley]

So everyone else has pointed out that ladders aren't illegal, but under the WAHR you need to think about access, and to be fair, in many cases there are better options, particularly when it comes to rigging (cf. focussing) lanterns. Given what you have said, surely the school has some investment in these productions - can't funds be forthcoming? Also what equipment has the scool available for changing lightbulbs etc. - is this available?

Likewise as mentioned, the talk of crashmats is worrying, and makes one think there might be good reason to be worried about ladder access in this case if you are seriously considering falling?

As for clamping with harnesses, again this comes below choosing appropriate access equipment to prevent accidents (WAHR), and also requires fall arrest harnesses and attachment points designed for fall arrest, etc - unlikely in this case I guess?

 

There must be a whole new market for pole-operated lanterns these days, particularly for small spaces, where access is a worry/ young people are involved in focussing? Hey, for Par56s, a stage brace used to do!

[Dweeks]

So everyone else has pointed out that ladders aren't illegal, but under the WAHR you need to think about access, and to be fair, in many cases there are better options, particularly when it comes to rigging (cf. focussing) lanterns. Given what you have said, surely the school has some investment in these productions - can't funds be forthcoming?

 

Pretty unlikely... in a one of situation, it may have been possible, but this H&S "%*£$ has already cost the school thousands in other pinikity issues, so spending £1k + on a scaff tower (the only forseeable solution), isn't feasible. And hell, why should it be feasible?! Why should these kids be priveliged enough to work with some really hard working staff members on a more than "Literacy hour " level.

We put on a production of Wizard of Oz, and I've got to say it was fantastic. We didn't have a big budget, but using borrowed resources, + small funding from the school we put on an absolutely fantastic show involving projections, filming, smoke effects, a massive stage featuring a huge, beautifully designed set, plus 24 channels of lighting inc moving lights... and what a show, the kids had a fantastic time, they worked SO hard, I'm not even their teacher and I was proud of them... without a doubt they will remember for the rest of their lives. This was a stage above any primary school play I've ever seen. And now, because of this do-gooder, a show like that wouldn't be possible. Literally. There were many little quirks which the kids loved, the audience loved, but these wouldn't be possible after this H&S guy, as it involves working at slight height. Pathetic. So future generations may miss out on some fantastic times, because of H&S and a hyperactive nanny state. We'll be stuck with either a rather poor show, or nothing at all. Lighting, special effects, even ducting smoke, can't be possible now. These are such a major part of a show, and now can't be used theoretically.

 

Sorry, this just frustrates me, you can throw as much numeracy and literacy crap at kids, but the amount they learnt about acting, teamwork, music and working hard was amazing. And now this can't happen again (potentially).

 

Also what equipment has the scool available for changing lightbulbs etc. - is this available?

Most rooms have very low ceilings, certainly nowhere near the height the stage bars are at, but this is a fair point and I will investigate.

Likewise as mentioned, the talk of crashmats is worrying, and makes one think there might be good reason to be worried about ladder access in this case if you are seriously considering falling?

 

Absolutely not, I just believe in being safe rather than sorry... if spending a couple more minutes lugging huge crash mats around saves a broken body part, I'd rather do it. I should point out, that during previous rigging sessions I have never felt unsafe, and never make movements which would put me or anyone else at risk. As I say though, better safe than sorry.

As for clamping with harnesses, again this comes below choosing appropriate access equipment to prevent accidents (WAHR), and also requires fall arrest harnesses and attachment points designed for fall arrest, etc - unlikely in this case I guess?

 

Indeed, probably not possible. At my work, we are permitted to clamp ourselves to trusses (motorised), wearing a restraint system. However, I doubt this is official, it seems to be poorly thought through.... these things are strong but not designed for fall arrest. Its odd as the venue is less than a year old, I just thought this may be a possibilty for the school.

EDIT: Damn, Dweeks got in before me, and the L brackets are a bugger to work with aren't they tongue.gif

 

Absolute buggers! Sadly the age and style of the venue wouldn't have suited trusses, or even single lighting bars. Sadly.

 

 

You will note my use of the words "theoretically" and "potentially". For legal reasons, I won't go into what I'm meaning, but I don't see why the pinikity behaviour of the nanny state should take away the potential for kids to take part in fantastic shows, so as the phrase goes "by hook or by crook". I'm looking for a way to change things so we can do things legally. That's all.

 

Cheers Guys. :** laughs out loud **:

[mal421]

I sympathise with you . I have recently had a couple of run ins with the H&S nazis from a municipal authority . The most recent regarding a 'Trilyte' Lighting gantry . This gantry was 5m high , 4m deep and 9m span . Each leg ( there were 4 )was bolted through the stage with 2 x 10mm bolts . They wanted me to have secondary fixings . I asked why and also where would they like me to attach these secondary fixings ? The reply was this :- "Just in case a drunk gets on the stage and in the struggle with the security staff the rig gets knocked over and into the audience ." The suggested fixing points were the basket ball nets . The suggestion that if a drunk got onstage during the performance implied that their audience control measures were a bit lacking got a hostile response . I told my crew to take the rig down and put it back inthe truck . The prompted a "There's no need to be like that sir" response . The moral is get a new H&S bod in , one who is experienced in the theatrical environment . It's the easy option to say it's dangerous don't do than spend some time and effort to come to a workable solution . PM me and I will help as much as I can .

[Nick S]

I just believe in being safe rather than sorry... if spending a couple more minutes lugging huge crash mats around saves a broken body part, I'd rather do it. I should point out, that during previous rigging sessions I have never felt unsafe, and never make movements which would put me or anyone else at risk. As I say though, better safe than sorry.

 

It's a question of appearances, not of safety. Putting crash mats around a ladder gives the appearance to someone observing that falls are a regular occurance, since the crash mats are there. If I come to a venue and see people rigging with crash mats around ladders, I'm not going to think they're there for added safety - I'm going to think that given at no other venue have I seen said crash mats, the fact the mats are there means a far greater chance of a fall.

 

That may not be the case at all, but it's all to do with the perception.

 

And all that ignores the fact that crash mats just aren't an appropriate safety device anyway, and when improperly used they can actually make a fall worse.