LED birdies & movers

[timtheenchanteruk]

I have seen recently some LED birdies, but so-far not found any stockist,

 

I run a drama group for kids (amongst other shows) and our next show the main set will be goal post trussing (4 of) but I need to hang lighting off it to make it look any good.

 

The theatre we use is very streched on the elecric side of things with only 48 channels able to take 1K each, using a fat frog

 

We have used led cans a few times to good effect, and wondered if the led birdies are any good or really only usful for display work etc, and if there are any decent LED moving heads around (I presume there are only wash versions of these, but feel free to enlighten me)

 

standard movers are streatching power a little, using 2 miniscans with the rest of stage lighting can plung us into darkness!

 

Any other suggestions, apart fron getting more power in gratefully received

[niclights]

The 36's have far less LED's than the 56/64 types so I think you can guestimate how bright in comparison and decide. The answer is probably that they are only any good for display/bar downlights and maybe truss warmers (not literally of course! :( )

 

48x1K isn't so bad. At 230v = approx 200A at my calculation. Are you sure it's really capable of this and not that there are just that many dimmer channels? The reason I ask is I am very confused why 2xMiniscans @ approx 400W would be so much of a problem.

 

Anyhoo. Not sure who hires LED stuff, but usual major players would be a good bet. There are no useable moving LED heads yet that I am aware of (wash or spot). There are a few pretend 'disco' ones, but AFAIK their output is awful. Would be cool if someone proves me wrong though!

[timtheenchanteruk]

I know the guy who has just re-done the electrics and I am assured that each channel can take 1K with all at full with no probs, but if using the 2 scans it will pop,

 

I presume that the stage lighting is one a seperate phase to other parts of the building, as there is a seperate 2way dimmer at the other end of the building for the follow spots, each rated as capable of 2.5K each

 

I havnt actually tested the theory myself, as id prefer not to take the roth of the in-house guys!

[niclights]

That doesn't make any sense and I'm surprised the house people are ignoring that fact that two low power scans are taking out the power.

 

Most buildings have at least one three phase supply into the building. How this is split varies, although ideally the phases should be reasonably balanced and PA should be separate from anything else.

With the 48x1000W @ approx 230v = around 200A it is most likely that this is achieved by using two or three phases of an incoming supply. If power goes out with 2 scans AND all 48 channels loaded with 1K lamps running at 100% at the same time then fair enough, otherwise I would suggest that this is not an MCB but an RCCD problem - ie. fault, not overload.

This would be easy to check - take scans and power from a separate RCCD protected supply. If one of the units takes out the trip then you have a faulty fixture. If ok then check supply cables to scans.

 

I realise this is rather offtopic, but your main deciding factor on fixture seems to be power based on this, which I think is a fault, not an example of power limitations.

[mumbles]

The theatre we use is very streched on the elecric side of things with only 48 channels able to take 1K each

Just one thing that I was wondering about, are these 48 ways of 1kW dimmed or not. If they are dimmers, then surely the scans shouldn't be plugged through them anyway, but through a non-dimmed circuit. :(

[James S]

Robe (among others) make nice poweful LED movers IIRC - stage LX stock some varient I am sure.

[timtheenchanteruk]

Just one thing that I was wondering about, are these 48 ways of 1kW dimmed or not. If they are dimmers, then surely the scans shouldn't be plugged through them anyway, but through a non-dimmed circuit. :(

I think I may have not made it very clear, yes the 48 ways are dimmed, but the fixed power sockets come from the same supply, hence the same power restrictions,

 

I beleive, but I may be wrong, the racks/dimmers use 2 of 3 phases, with the rest of the building on the third, the main power restriction being the size of cable coming into the building, and the group who run the building are unable to afford an upgrade at the moment.

[Stuart91]

I am very confused why 2xMiniscans @ approx 400W would be so much of a problem.

IIRC Miniscan HPEs draw closer to 1kW each - at least, I've certainly seen someone melt a four-way by plugging four into it :(

 

How are the dimmers arranged? Could the scans be tripping a circuit that also takes out a Demux, killing the signal to the dimmers, so you are plunged into darkness even though the dimmers still have power?

[Ekij]

The LED birdies being sought, are they fixed colour birdies or RGB DMX controlled?

I've seen Par16 LED lamps in about six fixed colours ('warm' white, 'cool' white, red, amber, green and blue). I've not seen multi-colour Par16s

 

Wavicle sell Par16 lamps, however they are not so expensive that you couldn't consider hiring the lantern and buying your own LED lamps.

 

Edit: Fixed Link

[niclights]

Ooops. I messed up there and replied about 36's and not 16's. Even less bright then :blink:

 

@Stuart91: I'm sure it's not as much as 1kW though I've probably underestimated at 400W. I did measure at one point, but I forget the value. Not important though.

 

It still does not make sense that these units, whether coming from the same phase/suppy as the dimmers or not, would overload a circuit capable of 48x1kW unless all 48000W was in use. Check for earth fault on these fixtures/supply cables and check their supply is rated at something useable - surely 13 or 16A?

 

@James S: Can you provide some links? I have not seen any useful LED movers (unless you count the moving Palco's!) yet. There certainly weren't any at Plasa last year and AFAIK none of the major manufacturers have figured out a way of removing the heat and/or focusing to achieve this.

 

/edit: ok. I looked at the Robe. - 36x 1W luxeon. Hmmm. Maybe is useable? It's always so hard to say. I did look at the DMX channel assignment and ... no overall dimmer channel :( I just want to slap them!

[goochr96]

Where abouts in the UK are you Tim please? How many LED cans would you be after?

[mumbles]

I believe Enlightened lighting in Bath have some par 16 size arcsource 6 LED fixtures, which may do what you want. Their hire catalogue is viewable online here. However I'm sure that there are other companies round the UK with them. Alternatively, Ivisionuk.com have a similar range under their architectural section.

 

EDIT: also,

I have not seen any useful LED movers (unless you count the moving Palco's!) yet. There certainly weren't any at Plasa last year and AFAIK none of the major manufacturers have figured out a way of removing the heat and/or focusing to achieve this....I looked at the Robe. - 36x 1W luxeon. Hmmm. Maybe is useable? It's always so hard to say. I did look at the DMX channel assignment and ... no overall dimmer channel

I believe that they had some robe LED movers on the Avolites stand at ABTT, which when being shown the diamond, I believe they had them dimming. Don't know if this was on a dimming channel or not, but looked nice, and were exceedingly bright.

[RichD]

I'm sure it's not as much as 1kW though I've probably underestimated at 400W. I did measure at one point, but I forget the value. Not important though.

Not important, but for reference:-

Miniscan 150 : 500VA

Miniscan 300 : 800VA

Miniscan HPE : 900VA

Miniscan HP3 : 1000VA

Golden Scan 3 HPE: 1500VA

Golden Scan 3 : 3000VA