Par 56's on 5A Plugs

[Paul Roberts]

I've got 8 Long Nose Par 56's which I bought a few months back, they all have IEC plugs on them as they're controlled seperately to the main system in in my school's theatre. I'm curious to know if it is safe to use 5A plugs on them or not.

 

(hence the reason I called myself amateur in my name with a question like that).

[Brian]

Don't apologise. Always better to ask about things you don't know.

 

Anyways, although not used in new installs there are plenty of places still using 5A connectors. A 5A connector, in good condition will carry around 1.2kW so a 300W PAR56 will not present a problem. Make sure you use a rubber connector though and that it's pins are nice and shiny.

[Paul Roberts]

Ok, thanks very much for that. I wasn't sure and to be honest wasn't really prepared to take the risk myself to find out.

[ampcats]

I wasn't sure and to be honest wasn't really prepared to take the risk myself to find out.

 

 

If only some others took that view...

 

better to be safe and ask a question than explain why the show went dark or got evacuated while the fire engines to show up for act 2

[Paul Roberts]

Oh I've taken risks myself and learned the hard way. I suggested (before I swotted on AMX, DMX, D54 etc) in September 2005 when I started getting interested in lighting that the school invest in a Behringer LC2412 not knowing it wouldnt work on D54. Big Mistake!!! Anyways cut a long story short, bought a multiexchanger but it still wont work for some reason, anyways got the M24 working again so I'm not bothered now, tbh I'd prefer to sell the Behringer which has never been used, and invest in another desk - if some here would advise on one that is reasonably priced and runs at least 24 channels I'd be grateful.

[Nickwoolley]

All depends on what type of things your school does. Do you ever use moving lights, do you need to program scenes etc?

[Paul Roberts]

Don't use moving lights, just profiles and fresnels. I prefer to programme scenes before a performance, and wouldn't go for a desk that wasn't capable of doing so. If the school system ran on DMX I'd be looking for something along the lines of a Strand 200 desk if that's any help.

[gareth]

moving lights

ARGH! Could we PLEASE have just one school lighting topic that doesn't mention moving bl00dy lights, please? :) Let's face it, a school whose current rig is 23s and 123s running off an M24 isn't going to be getting moving lights any time soon. (And knowing this particular school's LEA as I do, I can say that with some certainty!)

 

For a simple control desk that offers basic recording functionality, simple effects, and control of 24 channels, have a look at the Strand 200 24/48. It has 96 recordable submasters, timed crossfade from one to another, linking facilities for out-of-sequence playback, 24 basic programmable effects, and can also be run as a 2-preset manual desk for instant hands-on control - and is very easy on the budget, to boot!

 

Edit : judging by the reply that you posted while I was typing this, you're already thinking along very much the right lines! :)

 

Edit 2 : Paul, have a look at the Lighting FAQ - at the bottom, there's a long list of topics from the BR archives covering, in some depth, the subject of control systems (and other kit) for schools and amateur venues. Lots of useful information for someone in your situation!

[Nickwoolley]

Well it wasn't that the school actually had them it was more if they were thinking of using them in the future / hire them for events. I dont know the school might have a very large grant / become performing arts status in the future.

The school I work at hire movers every year for the school musical as it aids the use of gobos/ getting colour on stage. Another reason is because of power problems and the small incommer to the on stage dimmers. So because of this the school bought a Zero 88 Fat Frog, which is fantastic.

 

Please dont shoot me down, I was only trying to help.

[Paul Roberts]

(And knowing this particular school's LEA as I do, I can say that with some certainty!)

 

Edit : judging by the reply that you posted while I was typing this, you're already thinking along very much the right lines! :)

 

You're right about the LEA, they're useless when it comes to something like this :) . Fairdo's they're useless full stop.

 

On the Strand 200 desk, I've been looking at that for months, it looks good, and fits the specifications I feel are necessary. I wish Strand included a D54 outlet on it like they did on the MX's and LBX. It'd be easier for me then to persuade the powers that be.

What's the opinions here of the MX24? Might see if they can budget for that in the future.

[ampcats]

what dimmers do you use.... I'm not sure that the 200 does D54.... (IOW, I'm fairly sure it does not, but haven't got a rear panel schematic to hand) - so you would be back at a DMX / D54 interface issue, but with a more expensive console sitting gathering dust...

 

I'd be more tempted to spend the money on either a demux or dimmers with DMX - since your existing dimmers must have a few years on them now... then you are opening up the world of DMX to students (albe it using old dimmers / not a fresh desk)

 

not every school-kid can operate a modern strand / jands / ETC / zero88 desk without tuition - and the first thing a school should be is an introduction to different worlds - if they are interested, then a college / university can teach them how to run 2 shows simultaneously off a 550i, and program fixtures blind on a celco navigator....

[Paul Roberts]

Use the tried and tested Strand STM's, one ten channel and one 20.

 

not every school-kid can operate a modern strand / jands / ETC / zero88 desk without tuition

I can't even use a modern desk!!! I got my head round the M24 quickly, its easy and quite a nice desk when it wants to work, and I've had a bit of a dabble on an LBX, but nothing else. There's no-one actually interested in lighting, or no-one thats said, in my school. It's just that as a sixth former, I get free time to go down to the theatre and teach myself and it's from that that this interest has grown.

[ampcats]

because of power problems and the small incommer to the on stage dimmers. So because of this the school bought a Zero 88 Fat Frog,

 

 

I'm sorry if I'm on a bit of a downer, and while it is good to get students involved in lighting the shows that thier peers act in / build the sets for, I think that the money invested in a frog could better be invested in improving the incoming supply and some lantern stock so that the students have some practical lessons on lighting - namely lighting a theatrical set, as opposed to 'making stuff move about and look flashy' - even viewers of late night cheapo tv quiz programs can see how awfully the presenters are lit at times... on the other hand, I'll be begging for quizmania at the canteen before BB is over....

[paulears]

if you learn on the m24, it isn't a huge step to convert to strands current protocol.

 

I really agree with Gareths thinking about schools and movers. It really is a step too far, or maybe not too far, just jumping stages that are really vital and provide solid grounding in lighting. Producing good lighting with a small stock of very basic kit is really rewarding and teaches you how economies don't always stifle creativity.

 

I've just made sure that moving lights are not part of the BTEC lighting units, unless the school or college pick the dedicated moving light unit. Hopefully, this will encourage people to explore what conventional lighting is capable of.

 

Too many people now believe good quality lighting design only comes from big budgets and clever kit.

 

This thread started out with a pile of PAR56s. The 5A plus query is very common in schools. Once schools in particular move away from basic kit, everybody thinks they suddenly become fully fledged lighting designers, because they have clever kit (and bigger budgets)

 

The good news is that there are still far more schools with old, basic kit than flashy stuff - long may it remain that way.

[Nickwoolley]

Well...

 

We actually have a very good lantern stock, a multitude of Selecon lanterns and Strand Quartets along with a few good old 743s around.

 

Unfortunately, we are not allowed to upgrade our power supply as the County Council of the area don't like the idea of lots of power in area that might be near students. It's something that is at the top of the list to sort, however it never will be. Another problem is because the school was built in the 1960s it has literally ran out of power. The substation can physically not "pull" anymore power. This is such a big problem that school can not buy any more electrical appliances, including computers. The situation got so bad earlier on this year that one of the ICT Suites was actually turned off permanently because of the constant tripping.

 

I'm sorry but at no point did I say "making stuff move about and look flashy" I actually said it was more the use of colour and gobos. The whole of the technical crew at the school is led and crewed by students all who like to specialise in their own "department". I think the frog is an excellent desk for the school to use as it has A/B presets which you can busk on, but if for bigger shows you wish to program / run on subs you can.

 

When the proposal for the school to upgrade it's system was "put in". It included such things as brand new IWBs, 4 Betapacks and several new lanterns, also in this was the Fat Frog. Before this we ran a very "limited service" 3 Pulsar Dimmers and one of their preset desks, the name escapes me now.

 

For 99% of the shows we do at the school, we never need to use moving lights - there really would be no points. But if the budget is available for good kit that aids in making the show look good, why not use it. We recently did Grease and I personally think that the moving heads added a lot to the show, especially the Grease Lightning Sequence. I've never yet come across a member in our crew that thinks we hire these moving lights because they look flashy and cool.

 

I cant see how you can really comment when you don't quite know what the situation is at the school....

 

Another reason we got the Fat Frog was to plan for the future, if you have the money to spend on a decent load of kit for the venue, surley you should plan for the future...? In 5 years time, who knows what might be happening!