wycome5 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I just found this on Ebay, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...Y_BIN_Stores_IT The seller promises his haze machine won't set fire alarms off. Surely this cannot be guaranteed as smoke alarms have a varying amount of sensitivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete LD Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 you would have to be a brave man to test that theory in a 5 star hotel ball room when you will be paying the fire service call out charge! people clam all sorts of things on e bay. did you see the safety bonds rated at 300kg? they didn't look up to holding anything!:) Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert morley Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 talking about e-bay I saw somebody selling out of date pyros on there a few weeks ago. (when I mean out of date I mean 1999) but one swift e-mail to Lemaitre and low and behold there gone. Can anyone confirm that I am right in thinking that selling out of date pyros is illegal? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Wow alert :P Having played with a number of 'we promise it will not set off fire alarm' hazers, I would take any hazer that claims that with a grain of salt. :) They are bold faced lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm_machine Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 On the out of date pyro's - no it is not illegal, we regularly buy OOD distress flares and smoke from a major distributer. However it is against ebay policy to sell any pyro in date or otherwise, so that is why they would pull the advert. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert morley Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 OK back on topic my first smoke machine was a very small litefx machine that lasted all of 20 minutes which was off e-bay. When I contacted the seller he said that there was nothing he could/would do. So now I buy everything from the distributors and fx shops. Most of them have ex rental or display models that they knock of a good couple of quid off and have a years guarantee with them so it might be worth taking a look. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewR Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Actually back on topic, not just talking about hazers in general As far as I am aware no manufacturer offers any kind of 'smoke alarm friendly' hazer. For the very reason you mentioned. Fire alarms vary in sensitivity, depending on the type and make of detector. For example our auditorium has both particle (smoke) and heat detectors, with a switch that disables the particle detectors for when we use haze. Despite this we have had a ludicrous number of false alarms, mostly triggered by dust! Most particle detectors will be triggered at some level (of smoke/haze) as they just measure the amount of particles in the air, be it smoke, dust or haze.If in doubt ask the person in charge of your fire alarm what kind of detectors are in the space (some venues have a smoke switch and a 2 stage switch that gives you time to cancel the alarm if your hazer sets it off. but thats a whole other discussion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Modern detectors can be so sensitive thet I will NOT use smoke or haze in a building with detectors fitted, UNLESS the venue manager can assure me that the detectors are disabled and this within the terms of their licence. Yes I do have a friend who had four fire engines and 400 guests on the limmo loop at a MAJOR london hotel by careless use of a smoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick S Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Like people are saying, I'm of the general opinion that either you should be able to isolate a room, or you should test first. I certainly wouldn't use any hazer advertised as "alarm proof" in a room without testing it - although that does stem from experience. (some venues have a smoke switch and a 2 stage switch that gives you time to cancel the alarm if your hazer sets it off. but thats a whole other discussion) I am reminded of a production a few months ago which had a "pre-alarm" system for this purpose (I'm not entirely sure how it works, but I asume it's along the lines of providing a warning if the smoke detectors in the auditorium have been triggered but the heat ones havn't during a show, and then triggering the alarm if this pre-alarm isn't cancelled), which was triggered by haze. Sadly, the (new) receptionist saw the pre-alarm before it was cancelled, panicked, and called 911... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I am reminded of a production a few months ago which had a "pre-alarm" system for this purpose (I'm not entirely sure how it works, but I asume it's along the lines of providing a warning if the smoke detectors in the auditorium have been triggered but the heat ones havn't during a show, and then triggering the alarm if this pre-alarm isn't cancelled) Generally, there is a flashing light - often on or near the prompt desk and a delay in the order of about 30 seconds to 'stand down' the alarm. The specifics usually depend on who programed the system (and in the UK I suppose the terms of the license). A lot of the newer systems (not so sure about older ones, I am by no means an expert on fire control systems) seem to come with 'profiles' of a sort and it is not unusual to have a 'show' and a 'regular' profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hi I work in a 5 star hotel and we have tried the theory that any type of smoke or fog or haze machine will not set off firealarms they do the only way to get round this is have the detectors turned off in that zone . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 As mentioned above, there are two main sorts of detectors, particle and heat. Haze and smoke set off particle detectors, not heat, so it is common to have both types on sensor within a performing space. Fire systems really need to be designed with thought to things like haze and smoke, heat from lanterns and dimmers etc, which is why 'converted' spaces often give designers a lot of grief (in general, things like hotel 'ball rooms' may not be designed with these things in mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-ben Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 While I really enjoy working and coming home not smelling like an ashtray, the downside is that my scanners now look pretty sh1te, so I was going to start using a smoke machine, but someone said that this could set off the venue's smoke detectors, although I've never had a problem in the past, so can anyone recommend a smoke fluid that has a good 'hanging' time, but is thin enough not to have everyone standing outside waiting for the fire brigade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonino Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 get the buildings fire detectors set to heat only while your using the smoke machine, many pubs have this sort of thing already because of the smoky atmosphere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Langfeld Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 But you'd probably be better off with a hazer anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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