Which reverb for vocals?

[Rich]

Hi Folks

 

I'd like to add reverb to vocals, but I'm not sure which reverb to use! Whenever I've patched in a unit and added some, it's sounded terrible, more like you're stood in the Grand Canyon! What type of reverb should I use, and what kind of decay times should I use. If you can give me a starting point, I'll be able to adjust the parameters to suit my personal preferences.

 

I've got a couple of reverb units: a Yamaha REV100 and a Yamaha SPX90, if anybody is familiar with these particular units, that would be a bonus.

 

Many thanks. Rich

[MarkPAman]

I think number 3 on the SPX 90 is a good place to start

[RumbleO]

It's not just what you use, but how you use it.

 

I quite like the Rev100. My old Yamaha (can't remember the model, it was half-rack) was the first digital reverb I owned that sounded quite warm, and it had some really nice ambiences, but I still hated it when it was in the signal line. The A-D gave an uncomfortable edge to the sound.

 

I found it better used in the (parallel) Fx loop, or to split the vocal to the input of the Rev and bring the output back in to a different channel on the desk. (Don't add reverb to that channel, obviously.) Then you can fade in as much or as little of the reverb as sounds good.

 

Really should ask how you're using it. Saying it sounds like the grand canyon, would suggest you've got it in the main signal line, and have got the mix control up full. Back off the mix balance until it sounds better.

 

The first program is a good general purpose reverb effect. We also like program 4 which gives a nice thickness to the vocals without being echoey. But you'll find most of the preset reverbs (the lower numbers particularly) are quite usable, so you should find one you like. If it's been heavily edited, you'll need to reset it to factory settings. Switch it on with your finger on the store button, and program down to -- to reset them all.

 

Tell us more about your setup. What desk or PA amp are you using? How have you patched the unit in?

[Tomo]

Vocal Plate on the Yamaha is fairly common.

 

As RumbleO mentions, don't put it directly in the signal path.

The usual method is to use an Aux Send to the FX unit, then an Aux Return to bring it into the mix.

 

Then set the level of the Aux Send to give a sensible input level to the FX unit, and ride the Return to vary the amount of reverb. Most of the time you won't want very much, just enough to tint the sound.

 

Some tips:

I prefer to bring it back on a normal desk channel as it gives me more options as to what to do with it afterwards, although you've got to remember not to send it back to itself!

 

I usually have the Send as a post-fade, because then I can ride the whole sound rather than just the pre-FX part of it. Also Mute always mutes it - pre-fade auxes are sometimes pre-mute as well, much to everyone's annoyance.

 

(Note - I'm really a lighting guy, but I've had to take over the sound engineer's position more than once to cover illness etc, and this is what I've learnt so far)

[Rich]

Hi there, thanks for getting back to me.

 

I have actually been returning it to a channel, that's one of the very few things I learned at univerity!

 

Ok, speakers are either Peavey Impulse, HK Audio Premim Pro or custom built JBL loaded (2x15"+2"+1"). Amp wise, it's a Yamaha, Matrix or T.Amps. Desk wise Allen Heath GL2400.

 

I've tried the afore mentioned REV100 programmes, but as I say they've sounded very echoey, not the kind of reverbs I've heard at other live performances. It is possible the parameters have been changed, so I'll reset it.

 

If you say you've had good results with the REV100 Owen, then I should be able to get a good sound out of it. Did you alter the delay and reverb time at all?

[StevieR]

When it comes to reverb there is no right or wrong answer - its what suits the job in question. The one piece of advice I would offer when it comes to vocal work is not to layer the reverb on too thickly. Quite often I mix in the reverb just enough to be noticeable to me but not enough to be noticeable to anyone else listening. The effect then gently enhances the voice with an almost natural acoustic without detracting from the vocal timbre.

 

In terms of patches, I would look for a hall reverb with a little delay on top. Just my preference...

 

Steve

[dbuckley]

Might be worth reviewing this recent thread

[RumbleO]

(Sorry this'll be a quick reply - can't get peace today.)

I've tried the afore mentioned REV100 programmes, but as I say they've sounded very echoey, not the kind of reverbs I've heard at other live performances.

I like the rev100 'cos it sounds and 'feels' like my old unit, but it's a twenty-year old designed effects engine. Maybe the SPX90 will give the kind of sound you want to hear. (I looked for one to audition today, but they've been superceded.) The Yamaha desks with Fx are common. The SPX90 may be more now... more the kind of reverbs you've heard at other gigs.

Or are we being too subtle - niceties can come later after the basics.

Are you happy with the dry vocal sound. Using Fx to bring excitement to dull and lifeless vocals or to compensate for cr*p singing is another story.

If you say you've had good results with the REV100 Owen, then I should be able to get a good sound out of it. Did you alter the delay and reverb time at all?

Sometimes tweak, but it's seldom a big difference to the factory setting. The maker has spent loads on R&D to get it right and mostly they have. I don't store my settings unless I know I'm needing it again in the same set and I have to switch the Yammie to another sound in between.

As StevieR says it's often not noticeable.

(...until you fade the Fx return down to re-assure yourself it was doing something )

And if it's natural, then the big echoes will have impact the 2 or 3 times you use them during the night.

Your equipment is good. The A+H willl give you consistent feed and control to the outboards.

At a band rehearsal on Tuesday I had vocals only through a 300w SRM PA/amp, and most of my nice scripted external effects were just lost or only served to muddy the sound without the space and headroom of the big rig. So I reverted to the PA/amp's onboard reverb. Another case of the Mfr getting it right.

I think in your shoes, I'd stick with MarkPAMan's suggestion on the SPX90, and play with it on the desk until it sounds good. PFL the fx return channel briefly mid-song to hear what the wet sound is, fade in 'too much' and then back it off until it sounds right to you.

[Rich]

Ok then.

 

Tried the reverb again last night with much better results!

 

I used the REV100, on program 2 after I'd restored the factory defaults. It sounded pretty sweet with male singers, but really good with female singers. I used just enough to lengthen the "sss", "ch" and "t" sound when the singer was unacoupanyed or with minimal backing.

 

Also added quite a lot to the hi hat, and that sounded fantastic.

 

I'll try the SPX90 soon. Cheers.

 

Rich