Rigging being operated by school kids

[jimk]

We will be installing a manual counterweight rigging system in a school. The drama teachers are planning to let the kids operate the counterweights etc - hopefully supervised!. My thinking is that there must be some laws that put some minimum age limitation on this. Although the school is in Russia, the governing laws are US / UK / Canadian (their governments own the place). Can anyone enlighten me on this - I want to warn the school about the "rules".

 

The school has pupils up to high school (US), sixth form (UK)

 

Thanks

 

Jim

[Ynot]

We will be installing a manual counterweight rigging system in a school. The drama teachers are planning to let the kids operate the counterweights etc - hopefully supervised!.

<<SHUDDERS>>

:)

[Andrew C]

I don't know about written rules, but I too shudder at the thought.

 

At a tangent perhaps, but what about power flying? Easier to interlock, less physical work (manual handling), safety stops etc, etc.

 

As I type I remember that the Dutch or was it the Danes have banned manual flies in all new builds. That may be the place to start from. Discussed here a year or so back.

[klimov]

[1/ As far as I know the only place in Msk where US\UK rules\laws\regulations are applicable is the territory of embassies. If the school is inside it’s Ok. Do it as you wish.

 

2/ If it’s not inside… Definitely rules for child labor are out of the question because kids are not really hired or forced (it’s illegal even in States, right?) to do the job. But let’s assume our kids doing rigger’s (I mean on more than 3 m high) or electrician’s or (what the heck!) pilot’s job even if for fun… I don’t know… I guess to do the job like this one has to get some written permission after training course. Take driving… Somebody can do it at 12 – so what? Welcome to highway? Probably not.

 

I guess adult flymen in theatre have such a permission. Or nobody cares in UK\US ? At least one has to sign health and safety papers and kid’s signature is not liable. At least my first signature was on passport at the age of 16. Before that I kept my mouth shut – on legal issues, I mean.

 

To me, the only concern here is liability in case of accident. Flying bar can fall and damage something or injure someone. In case of this, I’m talking about entertainment industry, the liability is venue’s management (even in States). So let the director decide for him\herself if the fun is worth the risk.

 

That’s just me

 

Btw the papers I’m gonna scan for you have some info on this issue as well

 

I’ll be in touch

[jimk]

I'm shuddering to about this but without some kind of backup that is "official" no-one at the school listens (except for the financial guy who says anything other than manual costs too much). The teacher who is really advocating the manual counterweights is leaving at the end of this school year and therefore will not be here when the theatre is complete - and is therefore not going to be liable.

 

The theatre is theoretically on diplomatic territory but I will try to get them to follow the Russian HSE rules, it would really help though if I can quote UK or US HSE at the same time.

 

Jim

[mac.calder]

If you can get away with it, present your argument in written form. There is so much you can say, if you format it properly (with a foreward, contents etc) and make it presentable, you will have a fairly intimidating piece of documentation. Some will instantly be put off the ideas merely by looking at it, the others will read it and see the problems. I can guarantee half of them will not know exactly what a counterweight system is, how it works and the dangers involved. You have two main points of attack - the fact that weighted bars are being controled by young people and could injur those on stage, and the danger to the operators as well.

 

I (personally) would not let children near any form of fly gear. That is me though... So dont overly focus on the fact that it is counterweight - focus on the fact that there are children.

[HDnL]

post it when you're finished with it,

interesting to see how you're gonna handle it <_<

[Ellis]

Regardless of whether you allow children to operate the equipment, you will need an adult to load the weights (not light duties), check that the load is within limits and installed properly and perform the daily inpections of the equipment (i.e. an adult duty holder).

 

Some questions I would be asking?

 

If you are having children operating, there are several issues to consider - under 18's are only permitted to to light duties - how much imbalance will you allow? How much force will be required to overcome the inertia of the scenery, bar and counterweight and the friction in the system. May not be a problem for a gauze.

 

Then there is the issue of whether it is posssible for a child to get any part of their body caught - the counterweight sets I have seen all look poorly guarded at the fly-floor to allow access to the ropes.

 

Finally, can you consider a student under direct competent supervision to be able to lower a piece of scenery (potentially 500kg) in over a stage during a performance when there may be someone directly below?

 

In UK Health & Safety law (LOLER), flying equipment is considered to be exactly the same as a crane. In order to answer this question, ask a builder whether they would let a child sit in the cab of a crane on their building site. Then ask an engineering works manager whether they would let a child operate their crane. These examples may well change the opinions of your teachers - if not ask the teacher if they would be happy for the child to use a crane move a pallette of bricks from next to their car to some scafolding above!