Feedback problems with acoustic guitar

[paulears]

A BSS and comp/limiter? Interesting combination - why this particular technique to get more gain in a bar? The D109 is a very strage choice - I'd actually have thought an omni the last thing needed here - especially as it is such a strange thing to mount - do you hang it off the little chain? using the slide clamp, or bodge it onto a normal stand?

Paul

[Rich]

Right folks.

 

Had another acoustic night on Sunday, so I'm reporting back with my findings!

 

Difference in sound quality between the A&H and the Behringer

 

Massive, massive difference. The Behringer sounds very cold and harsh, with a reduced low frequency response. I had written the HK Premium boxes off as a bad job, no bass response, hot in the upper mids, but when I used them with the A&H, it was obvious that the Behringer was adding this colouration to the sound.

 

Feedback problems

 

I've bought an SE Electronics SA1 as recommended. Much more natural sound. I mounted it as advised pointing up at the sound hole to get rid of the standing wave, and I did get a bit more gain, but I still struggled to get the finger picking up.

 

I think my main problem could be the level of noise in the bar. As I was bringing the mic up to feedback level there was lots of background noise coming through the PA, so much so that it was difficult to hear the onset of feedback over the football. I put a graphic on but couldn't locate the feedback as it appeared to be spread across several frequencies. I'm not sure what to do now (apart from tell everybody to shut up!), I might have to insist on DI's only.

 

Rich

[Bobbsy]

I think my main problem could be the level of noise in the bar. As I was bringing the mic up to feedback level there was lots of background noise coming through the PA, so much so that it was difficult to hear the onset of feedback over the football.

 

If you're fighting that sort of noise, you're probably on a loser here. Fighting feedback is one thing, but if people aren't listening, every time you buy a few dB GBF people will just turn up the football or talk louder. It becomes a vicious circle, so I fear your "DI only" plan may be the only course...and even then you may find the audience can drown out your best efforts.

 

What's that line about "pearls before swine"?

 

Bob

[brianthebass]

Couldn't agree more - a room can only take a certain level of Front of House before it's bound to feed, and no amount of EQ or F/back destroyers is going to stop it.

 

You probably need to educate the audience to swith off the footy!

[david.elsbury]

Very quickly, I'm suprised no-one's suggested a stick on pickup. AKG do one, I'm pretty sure its the 411. Others do them too. Have a hunt around on the forums, they've been discussed before. I quite like the tone, and they can sound better than a DI, depending on the existing pickup.

 

David

[dbuckley]

As I was bringing the mic up to feedback level there was lots of background noise coming through the PA

You've not got a GBF problem, you've got a signal to noise problem. Too much bar, not enough guitar. So all the advice about feedback reducion is moot. You need to adjust the ratio of bar to guitar. This could be as simple as telling the guitarist to play louder, getting the mic nearer, using a more directional microphone (or if you want to try something funky that might work a cancelling mnicrophone), or a transducer on the guitar of some sort.

[Rich]

Just wanted to add that I'm really chuffed with the SE Electronics mic.

 

Been using it on a hi hat recently, and there is loads of output before feedback, plus it's got a really detailed sound in comparson with the other small diaphram condesnsers I've used.

[Bobbsy]

Glad you like the SE, Rich. I'm always nervous when I recommend something that costs money! However, I've been using a pair of them for a few months now and have been impresssed enough for a lot of uses that I'll likely be adding a couple more to the mic box soon. As you say, they're nice on drums...I've been using a pair over the drummer's shoulder on overheads with good results...and also found it gave a nice rich, smooth sound to a sax recently.

 

 

 

Bob

[jamesb1t]

HI,

It would be easier to pinpoint a solution if you could indicate the frequency area(s) that feed back. Feedback is a function of gain and distance from monitor to mic. (related to wavelength.)

 

I agree with most of the posts here, move the mic first. Away from the soundhole towards the bridge. The soundhole is probably the worst place to use for a useful sound. The bridge is the loudest, admittedly harder sounding but this extra energy in the high-mid can be used to your advantage. A standard '57 can be perfectly acceptable, beta better.

 

Additionally changing the distance and angle of the monitors mightbuy you the 3-6dB you need. BUT all this is circumstantial, if the input pressure to the mic is so low because a the guitarist is not a proficient player you can't possibly have high spls. imho, 1/3rd octave graphics are only great if the notch co-incides with the feedback frequency.

 

Let me know the feedback frequencies and if poss the mic to monitor distance.

 

Regards

James