rigging kit

[Sam_Lowers]

Hi all

 

just a quick question on what the legal rules are on types of Harnesses

 

I personally use a high end budget rock climbing Harnesses which was recommended to me by someone who I worked with in the industry.

 

I think that it is a great bit of kit and have never had any issues with it. I have come of a ladder when wearing it and because I was leashed onto a safe point I stopped falling.

 

the main reason that I wear one is because when I used to do amateur lighting I was up in the rafters running cable. when I was finished I called down to my guy at the bottom of the ladder that I was coming down to find he was leaning on it having a chat. I went mad about this. when he finally realised that I was talking to him he said

"I have got the ladder come on down."

I began my decent when suddenly the ladder (which was wobbling enough already) came away from the resting point by about 6inches. this scared the living hell out of me. it turned out this bloke was having a chat again and not paying attention. so for the rest of that get-in I refused to work with that bloke when I am in the air.

 

the company that I used to work for had interesting views. half the people said yea its fine to use and the other half were saying that I need to get a special type.

 

what I want to know is that if u are climbing a wire ladder into a truss chair does it matter what your Harnesses is designed for because if it is a rock climbing Harnesses you know that it is designed to stop your fall from anything from a few inches to 10+feet etc.

 

what is the rule??

 

cheers

Sam

[b1nuzz]

sam.

 

other than you seem to be having a very large moan about other people you have worked with, I can see the question in there as being what is standard issue safety gear, and should you be using rock climbing stuff.

 

Depending on the work that you do, depends weather you need it at all. Alot of ameteur work is highly unlikely to need this sort of gear, depending on what you are doing.

 

I dont know much about safety gear as the equipment we use isnt a 'rock and roll' system designed for carrying people.

 

Are you working in venues where it requires harnesses. Or are you using them for fun?

[Guest lightnix]

;) - Topic moved to Safety forum ;)

 

Not sure I can answer your question myself, but be aware (if you aren't already) that there are hazards relating to harness use, especially the dreaded Suspension Trauma, which can be fatal in a very short space of time.

 

See also here, here, here and here for other threads on harness-related issues (ahhh, the Search Function - 'tis a thing of beauty, for sure :))

 

Also bear in mind that, like all PPE, a harness should be regarded as a safety device of last resort; you should ideally never wind up in a position (i.e. falling, in this case) wher you have to use it. PPE is only one aspect of a safe system of work, not a substitute for one ;)

[Yorkie]

Surely there's a bit of a difference between a fall arrest harness and a harness that is designed to take your weight for a sustained period of time.

[Rich newby]

Surely there's a bit of a difference between a fall arrest harness and a harness that is designed to take your weight for a sustained period of time.

 

You would be surprised, there is not much different. Supposedly rock climbing should be used for everything, they can take long falls and short falls, they can be sat in for a long time, they are comfortable and are very hard wearing, designed to withstand rubs and catches on rock.

 

However I believe that they fall into a different category, mainly because there are only a couple that are full body. And also because they pass a different test, and I presume they would be just too expensive to get them tested for a rigging environment.

 

Rich

[Sam_Lowers]

hey

 

there have been some venues I have worked where you are required to wear them

 

over the summer some of the sites I was on you were expected to use one - not that we all carried them at the time

 

I have found that it depends on where I am depends on whether you need them

 

main reason for asking people is because I may be getting a place on a concert tour where I may be required to work within truss at height so was just making enquires

 

I no I wont need to use it in college but I am doing more and more work outside of college

 

it also means that if I don't need a different kind of harness that I don't need to buy a new one just for work and that I can just spend my money on a new one for climbing - which I am doing more and more these days

[Andrew C]

You need to use a specific fall arrest harness designed for work, not a sport harness. Wait a while and Chris Higgs will be along to explain why again. If you don't want to wait, use the search function as this has been covered before, at least once!

[strand600X]

you need to be aware of all risks associated with harness's

we use harness's all the time

we do not use a tallescope unless absoloutly neccassary

we have a truss and dolly system which we tour

we get onto the truss by a steel ladder with a safety line from the grid

the person who looks after us is IRTA trained we hasve had basic training

the thing to remember is you need to have someone with you who can effect a rescue if needs be

all to often people use PPE without looking fully into it please do some research before you go to far

sorry to be on a downer

If you wanna know anymore of what and how we do things let me know and I'll start getting technical

cheers,

baz

opera north

;)

[Sam_Lowers]

cheers for all the help

 

just a query because I want to be safer than sorry!!!!!

 

I will keep on research in as it is not definite weather I will be working on this concert or not

 

cheers for the help strand600X

 

Really useful

 

sam

[Guest lightnix]

It sounds like a short course or two in rope access and working at height might be the order of the day. They cost money, but are also very employable skills these days ;)

 

BR member Chris Higgs would be a very good first point of enquiry.

[flypig]

Just a point of interest about harnesses here in Oz.

 

Rock climbing harnesses (or 'Sit' harnesses) have been outlawed here for use in industrial situations (i.e. Rigging etc) since the relevant authority tested one. How did they test it? They took a tailors dummy torso (no arms or legs) strapped it into a rock climbing harness and turned it up-side-down. Surprise, surprise the torso fell out (well it would wouldn't it?). Subsequently, all harnesses used in industrial and/or work related situations must be 'Full Body' with both chest and dorsal connection points.

 

As well as my trusty sit harness, I also own a well known brand 'Full Body' harness with padded waist and leg straps (a bit pricey, but worth the money) in which I recently spent 8 hours suspended from ropes on a job we undertook. At the end of the session I had a little soreness around the thighs, but apart from that it was very comfortable. Incidentally, I still prefer to attach the main line to the waist (front) 'D' ring and the secondary safety to the chest as recovery from a dorsal is very difficult.

 

This company has just brought out a really neat little one man operated recovery winch - it's not shown on the web site yet, but I'm sure they will be happy to send you details.

[Pete]

Is it Similar to this one?

 

Although Im not sure that even this is suitable for the OP.

[Rich newby]

There the sort of idea Pete, there are may different types. You can get ones which lower when you fall automatically, and you can get ones like that one, which lock but can then be winched down. You will see the automatic release versions on alot of mobile climbing walls, because that means that there will be no-one belaying, saving money on staff, I don't think that they would be very good in emergency situations tho.

 

I think the main point has been brought up a few times, you need a secure fixing point first, and generally that is NOT a light bar.

 

On my full body harness, I have 4 D rings, 1 chest, 1waist, 1 left waist(on the side beside your hip) 1 right waist (again on the side, beside your hip). I Prefer to use the hip rings, as that means that your webbing straps are on either side of you, meaning that you don't have a strap right in the way when your trying to focus a light!

 

Rich

[Pete McCrea]

I use a Petzl Navaho Complet. It is design and tested to the appropriate standards for work positioning and fall arrest (as well as having a nice thick waist band that gives great support...). I would not use a rock climbing harness, as they are not designed and tested for the correct use.

 

However, the points need to be used in the right way. the points at the side of a harness are for work positioning. Where you are working on a tight rope system, and you should not be able to fall (as you are on taut ropes). They (AFIAK) are NOT for fall arrest, where if you fall, it is onto a potentially slack restraint.

 

The chest and back points are for fall arrest (and work positioning). The mean that should you fall, you will stop in an upright position. With the side/waist points, if you fell backwards you run the risk of snapping you back.

 

As mentioned above, the point you are attaching to is of utmost importance. If you fall, you will impose a HUGE load. The point needs to be tested for it. There are only 1-2 types of truss that are rated to take a fall. All others generally don't mention fall arrest in their specs, and so shouldn't be used in that way.

 

As people have said, if you are working at height, either on ropes or a truss, you need to have a rescue plan in place. This ranges from the simple, "We will have a Cherry Picker and Driver on site during all working at height to effect the rescue of a fallen worker", through complex rope Access rescue options.

 

If you don't know, then you need to be trained. Working at height IS DANGEROUS. Borrowing equipment for rock climbing isn't good. Working at height should at all times be minimised or removed by planning and correct use of equipment. The next step is to provide a safe working platform such as a Picker, scissor lift or other to undertake the task. Then, and only then, you should consider rope access or climbing techniques to undertake the task. In some cases getting a picker in won't happen (Floor loading, upstairs room etc) but you need to have shown (In writing) that you have exhausted the better alternatives before getting up there on a rope/ladder.

[Rob]

On my full body harness, I have 4 D rings, 1 chest, 1waist, 1 left waist(on the side beside your hip) 1 right waist (again on the side, beside your hip). I Prefer to use the hip rings, as that means that your webbing straps are on either side of you, meaning that you don't have a strap right in the way when your trying to focus a light!

 

Rich

 

This is definitely not cool - You're liable to do yourself a lot of damage when you fall. I'd recommend a read of the instructions that came with your harness...