Desk And Dimmers For Installation

[dominicgross]

hey people -

 

My college is refitting the main theatre - full grid, movers + scrollers - lock stock....

 

Anyway, I have to make a decision on the desk - we currently are using a frog- so I have looked at the leap and bull frogs and others.

 

We need control of 72 circuits and 12 movers and 10 scrollers. What are your recomendations? I got a demo on the strand 500 next week. Is the Illusion (z88) worth a look? (When is the mover software coming?)

 

Also, We are going to need dimmer, 48 channels of, - again I have looked at the chilli pros - but can I get something more for the money?

I know 48 dosn't sound much, we are also using another 24 channels of Beta packs for FOH

 

 

Cheers guys...

[peter]

I got a demo on the strand 500 next week. Is the Illusion (z88) worth a look? (When is the mover software coming?)

 

Also, We are going to need dimmer, 72 of them - again I have looked at the chilli pros - but can I get something more for the money?

Desks: Definatly consider a 300 over a 500, especially if the school has more than one venue (a studio space maybe?). I'm not saying either are superior - just consider the price savings.

Also look at a Bull Frog, which would cope with all 72 channels of dimming. The Illusion 500 software comes out at PLASA. Not sure when it will be downloadable, but I'm sure Lorna or Keith will let you know.

Depending on budget, you could also look into a Pearl or Hog, if the shows are likely to be more "rock and roll" (no need to get a HogII - a Hog 500 would do)

 

Dimmers: A lot will depend on which company you choose to install them. For example, if you get a quote from Stage electrics, they'll almost certainly use LD90 dimmers, whereas another company may use Lightfactor dimmers (only an example - I don't know)

Zero88 are bringing out new Chilli dimmers at PLASA I think, but also think about ETC Sensors, Strand LD90s, etc... (a browse around PLASA will, I'm sure bring up other brands)

 

Intelligent Fixtures: Which heads are you going for? Spots or washes? What do you have in the way of generics to complement the intelligent rig?

 

If you don't mind me asking, what is the budget for this install, as it sounds like a rather large one...

 

 

 

Hope some of this helps.

 

 

Peter

[dominicgross]

The fixtures we are getting are 8 robe wash 575 or the martin equivalent and 4 robe spot 575 or the equivalent. Does anyone have any comments on this?

 

As far as the 'budget' I will explain: The reverb is of our main 'theatre' space, this was a brilliant space built some 100 years ago. It was meant as a theatre but never used as one - more as a 'hall'.

 

The college is providing a s**t lot for the install (they won't tell me as they want nessesities rather than extremities) - this has to cover stage refit, rigging, cabling and quite a bit of structural work. Sound is also a necessity.

 

The lighting gear is being 'sponsored' by a number of different firms - they pick up on what we over spend... :)

 

As for the generics - we have quite a large stock of 1K and 650w selecon lamps, we plan to expand with a load more basically.

 

Most of the time the desk isn't going to be used by pro's, mostly visiting companies and some students: hence why I thought zero88?

 

Currently we have 2 spaces in use: a studio (capacity 60) where we use a lightmaster xls, and the studio theatre (cap 150) where we have a frog. We swap around depending on what goes on in each.

[peter]

The fixtures we are getting are 8 robe wash 575 or the martin equivalent and 4 robe spot 575 or the equivalent. Does anyone have any comments on this?

Sounds good, although it is important to realise that these will be considerably brighter than a 650w colour wash, so you may have to invest in some brighter generics for (especially) the FOH wash - it depends what you intend doing with the fixtures. If you have the opportunity, I'd go for Mac 600NT's over the Robe fixtures, and VL's over Mac 600s, but it depends on what is available to you.

 

As far as the 'budget' I will explain: The reverb is of our main 'theatre' space, this was a brilliant space built some 100 years ago. It was meant as a theatre but never used as one - more as a 'hall'.

 

The college is providing a s**t lot for the install (they won't tell me as they want nessesities rather than extremities) - this has to cover stage refit, rigging, cabling and quite a bit of structural work. Sound is also a necessity.

 

The lighting gear is being 'sponsored' by a number of different firms - they pick up on what we over spend... :)

 

All I can say there is U lucky b*stard... and make sure that the agreements are down in writing as you don't want to end up having to buy 8 x Mac 600s off the colleges own back, if they hadn't budgeted them.

 

As for the generics - we have quite a large stock of 1K and 650w selecon lamps, we plan to expand with a load more basically.

Consider investing in some Source4's or SLs for Front of House...they're considerably brighter than a "traditional" 700w(ish) fixture*

 

Most of the time the desk isn't going to be used by pro's, mostly visiting companies and some students: hence why I thought zero88?

You cannot guarentee what desks people will have come across, and as it is for a college venue it is probably important to have a desk which will enable people to learn for the future. If you have any budding LDs, they're going to thank you later for specc'ing a professional desk, rather than a Frog**

 

Currently we have 2 spaces in use: a studio (capacity 60) where we use a lightmaster xls, and the studio theatre (cap 150) where we have a frog. We swap around depending on what goes on in each.

If you went for a fairly easily transportable desk, you would be able to use the fixtures in whichever of the venues you happen to be putting a show on at that time. (eg Maybe a 550i isnt going to be ideal, unless you're built like a tank and fancy carrying £15,000 worth of kit around school on your own:P)

 

Anyway, I hope that some of this is useful.

 

*pedants... I know Source4's are 750w, but SLs are 700, so I'm trying to strike a balance.

 

**sorry to Zero88 for that comment... I know your desk is a professional desk! I love Frogs!!!!

[dominicgross]

We tend to rent SL's on a very regular basis: I will suggest buying a load.

 

As far as 'budding LD's' go, I think I am the only one...

 

basically I am a student on a full scholarship for lighting design, so I seem to be the biggest authority in the school,(hehe)

 

We have a feeling that all the money is being spent as a publicity thing for the school, but hey!! if it benefits me...

[peter]

We tend to rent SL's on a very regular basis: I will suggest buying a load.

I'd say 12 or so would suffice. Remember that fixed angles are cheaper than zooms, but have the obvious restrictions.

 

You mentioned scrollers in your original post. Any ideas which ones? Make sure you get adaptor plates for all the fixtures you're likely to use them on (SLs, your other house stock, etc)

[dominicgross]

I've never really worked with scrollers before, any recommendations? I am looking at the Chroma's , for no particular reason other than they're are one of the biggest names.

 

They would be placed FOH proberly.

[peter]

Chromas are good, Rainbows are more reliable... there are some new ones coming out at PLASA that have CYM mixing, and also the ColourCommand and ColourMerge from High End, which are dichroic colour mixers and either fit into the optical gate of a Source4, or a full on "par can style" fixture.

[Stu]

*pedants... I know Source4's are 750w, but SLs are 700, so I'm trying to strike a balance.

[Pedantic Mode]

 

Actually they are 600w :)

Or S4s can also be 575w and 375w (or is it 350w?)

 

[/Pedantic Mode]

 

Anyhow, from looking at this all, is there any real point in buying movers? Are they going to be used often enough to justify the expense of them, the cost of relamping them and the matience required when one decides to have an off day?

 

Could 12 scrollers and Fresnels/Pars do the job of the movers to the same standard?

 

Would the money be better spent improving other areas of the Lighting Stock (Lamps, Gel, TRS, Grellies, Distro etc)?

 

Just some questions for you to mull over!

 

As for movers, if you are looking into Robe's you could speak to Paul Need at 10outof10 (a member here) he uses/sells/rents them alot and might be able to offer you an opinion.

 

Or you could look at the new AC kit, after everyones looked at it at PLASA...

 

HTH

 

Stu

[dominicgross]

Thanks for all the ideas.

 

The movers weren't my idea as it happens. My opinion was that as we are doing full fly gear and grid, movers aren't really nessisary? (but would be nice)? I guess this would also simplify installation quite a lot....

 

I will take it up with the boss...

[MattH]

Hi Dom,

 

Maintenance wise, can I suggest that you choose S4's over the SL's (they always seem least maintained when visiting venues - many people moan that they take time/ awkward, also the gate moves when you're trying to do tight shutter cuts :o ).

 

Same for the Chroma's, I'm suspecting in a college location you'll not have anyone about to constantly stroke them, best try something more upmarket and reliable...

 

Matt

 

PS Buy a 'Proffesional Desk', it's a higher education venue, I see little point in people learning found only in schools - a step backwards. Ok, I admit I'm probably the only person on this site who does not know how to programme a Sirius 24 (I always fob that duty off onto someone who does). However, my first desk was an AVAB Expert - reverse polish anyone...

[NickLee]

PS Buy a 'Proffesional Desk', it's a higher education venue, I see little point in people learning found only in schools - a step backwards. Ok, I admit I'm probably the only person on this site who does not know how to programme a Sirius 24 (I always fob that duty off onto someone who does). However, my first desk was an AVAB Expert - reverse polish anyone...

Programming a Sirius 24 is like driving a car.

 

A really old car, one that goes very slowly and needs double-clutching. And a car on which the lock, biting point, accelerator effect, and braking power change every time you drive it.

What I'm saying is that every time I come back to an S24 to program it I have to check the manual.

Intuitive isn't quite the word...

 

N.

[Rob]

Just out of interest, is there a house tech to service, maintain and provide training on all these toys? Will there be any service contract? Having not left school so long ago, I'm aquite a believer in keeping things simple - In this situation I'd go for the stuff that will provide the learning opportunites but will also be resonably simple to operate and use.

 

basically I am a student on a full scholarship for lighting design, so I seem to be the biggest authority in the school,(hehe)

 

Scholarship for lighting desing at secondary level??!! Boy, did I miss out!

[smeggie]

hi

 

'snot Fair!!! :P I want a refit + an ld scholarship!

 

I suggest getting something like the strand 500/300 as these are the type most often found in the majority of 'pro' venues at the smaller scale end of this industry.

as well, once you know the strand ranges, you can easily adjust to etc's ranges and most others.

 

the sirius is a great series for smaller shows that are run on manual with a spattering of submaster. dead simple and easy to use/ program. Once you have the hang of it :o .

 

shame it's nothing like the majority of other os's. ah well.

 

pearl could be very useful - look at lipa. looks great in the prospectus too (could use it for promo as well as being a sweet range)

 

cheers

andrew

[themadhippy]

be nice to the sirius,or I'll make you all use an njd merlin

as for lanterns if youve already got some selecons why not stick with selecon,the pacifics are easy to maintain,give a good light output,fairly lightweight and the heatsink grills salmon a treat so im told.