Working at Height

[opman]

I have a ROSPA Audit shortly and am currently updating our H & S documentation. I recall there was some discussion last year regarding changes to Working at Height regs. Can anyone point me to updated information or share their stage / FoH risk assessment for ladder work like focusing etc

[Guest lightnix]

Ten seconds on ;) produces this. Also, searching the Safety forum for "ladder" or "ladders" will also produce several, quite useful results.

 

I'm no H&S expert, but AFAIK Risk Assessments are not something that can be just shared around and stuck in a file, in order to keep the Powers That Be happy and keep you "street legal". They should be produced as a part of your overall safe system of working and acted upon on at all times.

 

There is still some dispute in the business regarding the "safe" use of ladders. AFAIK the WAHR say that they should now strictly only be used as a "means of access" and not a "work platform", with three points of contact between the ladder and the user (e.g. two feet and one hand) at all times. This effectively rules out rigging from ladders altogether and makes focussing from them, at best, a dubious activity. It may just be permissible to focus or change the colour / gobo in the occasional lantern from a ladder, where no other means of access is "reasonably practicable", but the bulk of such work should really be done from a proper work platform, e.g. a scaff tower or Tallescope with the appropriate Risk Assessments performed with regard to such work.

 

Sorry not to be more help, but that's the point where I start to get out of my depth; so I'll leave it to others, who are more competent than I, to continue.

[opman]

Thanks for the reply - I actually downloaded that guide last week but didn't find it terrifically informative. And no, I'm not trying to piggyback off someone else's RA's!

 

I suppose what I am looking for, and didn't express sufficiently well, is whether or not there is an industry consensus on this subject or is there any chance of a view emerging [possibly via ABTT]? Since I am responsible for a number of local authority owned and run venues I have a long history of having to battle with the Council H & S section, who tend to want to implement things across the board and without regard to surroundings or accepted working practices. Last year for instance one of their lifting inspectors decided that knots should be banned for hanging things, and it was only by recourse to the ABTT code of practice [recognised by the HSE] that I was able to win my argument.

 

So, if anyone knows of any precedents, benchmarks or has resolved similiar problems I'd be grateful for the input.

[Tom]

Try getting hold of the ABTT Draft Working at Height Code of Practice. It is not well publicised on their web site but does exist if you contact them directly.

[Chris Higgs]

HSE site, search for INDG401.pdf

 

You can use ladders, but you'll need to have a justification for doing so - other, safer means not being practicable (feasible).

You can paint, for example, from a ladder provided a handhold is always available should you need one and the duration of the work is short, say 15 - 30 minutes.

Good practice in using ladders as places of work should include this consideration in any case.

Nix is right - use ladders as a means of access, not a working place.

Use an IWP or a tower wherever you can.

 

ABTT document is still in draft form, check the site for details.

HTH

[Chris Seal]

Your risk assessment process should result in a safe working methodology for a specific task, if this means that it is safer to use a tower rather than a ladder then you would have no excuse in the event of someone falling off a ladder (Reg 6(4)). "You must ensure that the place where work is done at height (including the means of access) is

safe and has features to prevent a fall, unless this would mean that it is not reasonably practicable

for the worker to carry out the work safely (taking into account the demands of the task, equipment

and working environment). Guide to The Work at Height Regulations 2005 (HSE, 2005)

 

As far as I can tell not having the correct equipment is no longer a viable excuse for employers. If the risk assessment process says the safest thing is cherry picker, then employers have no excuse not to supply one.

 

Does any one have different readings of the regs?

[Chris Higgs]

PLASA have an excellent guide to the Regs. Check their site.

ABTT code of practice still a draft.

There will be a BS code of practice in the future, a syllabus for anyone working at height. This is being worked on by an HSE advisory committee at present.

 

HTH

[Steve Macluskie]

:) New "Ladders" topic merged. Don't forget: it is better to add to an existing thread on a subject, than to start a new one.

 

Aaaaargghhh

 

Ladders Again

 

After attending the H&S conference in Stratford recently I thought I was pretty clear on the use of ladders in the workplace. Stepladders could be worked from for "short" duration or "light" use as long as a handhold was available. i.e. Focussing lights or a quick paint job was ok provided you could grab hold of the top rung or stiles if required.

 

However

 

This month's Health and Safety for Beginners newsletter (Issue 30 , 30th October 2005) provides a link to the free HSE leaflet indg402.pdf which seems to suggest that 3 points of contact is recommended for ladder and stepladder use.

 

I realise that the HSE document is a guide but it is exacly the type of reference documentation that gets waved about in faces as "the law".

 

Any Comments

 

I think the document can be obtained from the link below although the newsleter is a subscription thingy.

 

http://www.healthandsafetytips.co.uk/Artic...ur_articles.htm

 

Steve

[Ynot]

HSE site, search for INDG401.pdf

 

You can use ladders, but you'll need to have a justification for doing so - other, safer means not being practicable (feasible).<snip>

Nix is right - use ladders as a means of access, not a working place.

Use an IWP or a tower wherever you can.

This creates a BIG problem in smaller venues, like mine.

There is NO room for a tallescope, let alone a cherry picker!

We do have a scaff tower, but it's a steel 7 foot square job and hardly convenient for small work. It takes quite a while to drag it out and erect it and takes 2 or 3 hefty chaps a fair while to get it to working heght plus it can't be used practically when there's scenery on stage. The scaff is certainly used when there's a big job required and/or there's the space/time to justify it.

 

We do use ladders - we have 3 sizes of commercial quality A-frames and a solid extension ladder - as they are the mainstay of our WFH options. The local authority have inspected the venue and we've discussed the aspects of WFH with them, and after a couple of minor changes, they have accepted our policy statement.

 

I'm also looking into a lighter weight scaff tower (zip-tower type), by the way, so if anyone's got any decent suppliers with decent prices....

[Chris Higgs]

This creates a BIG problem in smaller venues, like mine.

 

Why? Surely this is a demonstration of why you use ladders, and from what I infer, actually stepladders.

The issue is to use them safely (security, stability, etc) and to use them for the lightest duty possible (use appropriate line/pulley properly to raise and lower luminaires, etc) and to reduce the time spent at height.

You have a set of reasons that means right now you are doing the best you can.

You're also seeking a newer, lighter tower, even though you won't be able to use it for everything.

I feel you are acting reasonably and responsibly for what it's worth, but you'll only find out if there's an incident (hopefully not) or a spot inspection.

You've already had the advice/input from the LA - what's the worry?

 

 

 

I think the guide Steve refers to is actually http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg402.pdf - Safe use of ladders and stepladders.

This does refer to three points of contact - but also states there must be a handhold 'available'.

It doesn't say you have to hold on all the time, in fact, there is mention of carrying a 10 kg load up the ladder, which means you can't.

It also quotes a period of 30 minutes as a duration - Steve may remember the HSE picture I used at the seminar he referred to of a guy trimming a hedge from a stepladder with the caption "reasonable under the circumstances" (or words to that effect).

 

I think we may be worrying too much about this. If you can use a ladder reasonably comfortably and correctly in terms of angle, security and stability, then it is OK, provided you have exhausted the other, safer means at your disposal. There will always be some occasions where ladders are needed.

The HSE simply want to reduce those times as much as reasonably possible by requiring us to use platforms wherever possible, and when that is not possible, to consider alternatives having regard to the distance and consequences of a fall.

[Ynot]

This creates a BIG problem in smaller venues, like mine.

 

I feel you are acting reasonably and responsibly for what it's worth, but you'll only find out if there's an incident (hopefully not) or a spot inspection.

You've already had the advice/input from the LA - what's the worry?

 

Thanks for the encouraging support Chris!

(And we really MUST get around to sorting out that on-site rigging training we've talked about ages ago!!)

:)

TD

[Guest lightnix]

Thanks, Chris - that's very reassuring. There are times when using a ladder is not only the most practical, but arguably the safest means of performing a task. I think the problem for most people "in the field" is not what the HSE are trying to achieve, but the way it's interpreted by local safety officers. "You can't do that, it's against Health & Safety", appears to be the knee-jerk response all to often.

[Chris Higgs]

You are so right. It is easy to forget that the objections do often come from the LA or house staff/venue management who often genuinely believe that what they are suggesting is 'the law' or that it is a British Standard, therefore as good as law.

I don't miss all that at all.

The trouble is that so many of these types have done a 'managing safety' course that attempts to resolve the world's safety issues in a few days.

Well intentioned, but a blanket measure that reduces people to the LCD. Human nature is such that when you tell someone to do something in a way which they don't believe is appropriate, the upshot may be worse than the original hazard.

The hard hat argument is a classic case in point. There's no doubt that in some situations it is beneficial (provided an appropriate type of hat is used) but the hazard isn't there all the time. However, to manage the risk, the 'rule' says "hard hats on stage during fit ups" or whatever.

Because we know that once work overhead is finished, or the work overhead is unlikely to be any safer by using head protection, we all start to call the safety person names and rebel throughout the job.

Not helpful for anyone. Surely better to instill people with a genuine understanding of the hazard (it might kill you) and what the best and most practical way of dealing with it might be (don't be underneath it, or if you must be, use techniques which reduce the risk and remain very alert).

I think there is light at the end of the tunnel, I often provide rigging training for safety officers at venues - so they understand what we do and the skills and techniques we use. Hopefully this will help them clamp down on the cowboys and relax a little on those that do know what they're doing.

[Guest lightnix]

Here's a couple of relevant little snippets from the PSA website...

 

Working at Height? You’re being watched…

The Health and Safety Executive has been digging deep into its pockets recently and has allocated some of its budget to conduct a study of working at height in stage construction. This study is being conducted by Lynn Hunter BEng, of TUV NEL Ltd. Who arrives fresh from a 1-year study into working at height in the fairground industry...

Full story here...

 

...and on the subject of ladders...

HSE targets ladder safety

The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has published new free guides to help raise awareness of the risks associated with ladder use and to give advice on how to use ladders safely. The guides are aimed at all users of ladders and their employers and have been published as part of HSE’s campaign to reduce falls from height. Last year 13 people died from falls while working on a ladder, and more than 1200 people suffered major injuries...

Full story here...

 

The guides are available, in PDF format, on the HSE website here, here and here