people below using hard hats....

[StuRobson]

Just about to have a major arguement on this subject with the bloke 'in charge' of health and safety. If I had someone below me when I'm working at height moving me lights do they 'HAVE' to wear a hard hat ?

[gareth]

AFAIK there's no reg to say that they have to ... but on the other hand it's probably advisable, and 'best practice', that they do ...

 

The law as I understand it is that, although an employer can't actually force you to wear a hard hat in situations like that, they must provide the necessary PPE so that you have the option to wear it if you see fit. I could be wrong, though, as I haven't been an employee or an employer for quite some time so I'm a bit out of touch with the finer details of that side of H&S law - if anyone knows better, please do correct me.

[David Ripley]

Rather than relying on

 

1 Someone wearing a hard hat and

 

2 whatever you dropped hitting the hat rather than the bits that stick out from under it, ie the rest of the body, why not mark out the area below as NO GO?

 

I know it isn't always practical but PPE is the last resort, removing yourselves or other from the danger is a higher priority.

 

If you are issued with PPE as you should be then you must use other wise you are in breach of H&S regs.

 

David

[Brian]

1. Use of PPE is a 'last resort' measure according to the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations. It should only be used when no other method of reducing the risk is possible.

 

2. Use of PPE, when issued to you, is required by Regulation 10 of the Personal Protective Equipment at Work Regulations (and this applies if you are an employee or self employed).

[Chris Higgs]

The employer/self employed person is obliged to operate a safe system.

If that safe system includes PPE, then it is a duty to use it.

The safe system should must consider if people beneath need to be there, and if they do only then should PPE be an option (as others have said).

Is a hard hat appropriate PPE?

Depends very much on what you may get dropped on you.

That is for the employer's competent person to decide. (Him again)

Of course a hard hat to EN397 (as 'building sites' use, although only designed for quite small impact forces) is better than nothing, if a piece of scenery was to fall, or a lantern, the hard hat would only protect the point of impact as you are crushed beneath the truss, well you know what I mean...

Then one has to consider if using hard hats was actually part of a safe system of work or in fact giving people a false sense of security; encouraging them to be somewhere they shouldn't be/needn't be/could be later but don't risk it at present.

I am not suggesting this as a reason not to use head protection for a second, more to suggest that standing around on stage when anything is going on above you at whatever height in whatever trade is probably something that needs addressing by the employer.

 

Eliminate the risks; if you can't do that, reduce them to an acceptable level.

Accepting the risk of being hit on the head because you have got a hard hat on 'to protect you' is unlikely to be acceptable in the situations we find ourselves in.

 

Individuals do not have the choice whether to use PPE or not if the employers risk assessments/procedures identify the hard hat as a control measure, it would be a duty and a condition of employment.

[Andrew C]

Are we thinking of the chap footing your ladder (who has to be there) or random crew who just happen to be around? Is your HSE bloke competent (who can be reasoned with), or a jumped up caretaker (who can't)?

 

The short answer to the post would be if you can't get the extra bodies out of the way, yes they should be wearing PPE, supplied by the employer.

 

I am aware that a school environment does make a difference to all sorts of interpretations and that it is also very difficult to keep hard hats long enough to insist that they be worn.

[Freddie]

At my school: anyone up or at the bottom of a ladder or the tower has a HH. They do get used by some of the crew for doing YMCA during discos

[robloxley]

At my school: anyone up or at the bottom of a ladder or the tower has a HH.

Assume you have chinstraps else the risk of being hit by a falling hard hat comes into play...

[Guest lightnix]

Just about to have a major arguement on this subject with the bloke 'in charge' of health and safety. If I had someone below me when I'm working at height moving me lights do they 'HAVE' to wear a hard hat ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just out of interest, can you tell us a little more about the argument and which side you were taking?

 

At the venue where I mostly work now, there is a 2m "drop zone" in force around any tower, within which people must wear a hard hat. There should be a Ground Man at the bottom of the tower while somebody is working above, to warn people away from the tower and we have to put out "Warning - People Working Overhead" signs (just in case the presence of a tall, shiny tower with somebody up the top shouting instructions wasn't enough of a clue :) ).

 

Individuals do not have the choice whether to use PPE or not if the employers risk assessments/procedures identify the hard hat as a control measure, it would be a duty and a condition of employment.

Absolutely. I remember an old client of mine once telling me about his legal duty to enforce the use of PPE amongst his employees. Observing H&S procedures is a clause in just about every contract of employment these days and they can sack you if you don't.

[the kid]

At my school: anyone up or at the bottom of a ladder or the tower has a HH.

Assume you have chinstraps else the risk of being hit by a falling hard hat comes into play...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

This is the intresting thing for us. At college we have to ware HH's but only on the ground because of the way the rig is it is very hard to hit your head whilst on the scope.

 

Although there all checked surley a pointed side of a lantern would go through it?

[Paul J Need]

Hard Hats can save you life.

 

If a 2k Fresnel falls on your hard hat ( with you inside it) 99.9% certain it will kill you with or without a hat on. It will probably break your neck. However, if a spanner is dropped, the hat will save your very thin, and fragile skull from being shattered.

[Brian]

However, if a spanner is dropped, the hat will save your very thin, and fragile skull from being shattered.

 

I posted this originally in the 'Cable Ties and Maplin' thread...

A bit of science...

 

An adult human skull can fracture with an impact force of 100 joules.

 

100 joules is represented by a mass of 1kg falling 10m, 5kg falling 2m or 10kg falling 1m.

 

So, a lightweight lantern, like a PAR64 which weighs around 3kg, can fracture an adult skull on a drop of around 10 feet.

 

In fact an adult skull will self-fracture when dropped around 4 feet.

 

Figures for children's skulls are much lower.

[paulears]

it's not the 2k falling that bothers me, it's the damn barn doors that spike your head!

[PDD]

At my school: anyone up or at the bottom of a ladder or the tower has a HH.

Assume you have chinstraps else the risk of being hit by a falling hard hat comes into play...

 

This is the intresting thing for us. At college we have to ware HH's but only on the ground because of the way the rig is it is very hard to hit your head whilst on the scope.

 

I had the very same arguement with someone once - I was provided with a hard-hat without a chin strap and told to wear it up a tallescope. I pointed out that it might easily fall off; the reply was "oh, we hadn't thought of that". :) Anyway, from then on, I bought my own hard hat - better fit and better for hygiene too, plus a chin strap. It's most useful up in the grid, rather than to protect from falling objects, as I'm always hitting my head on the low beams... *ahem*

[Chris Higgs]

Interestingly, one of the things that instinctively happens when a human is hit on the head with any force is the knees bend, absorbing a lot of shock.

I am sure there are times when the angle/force/speed would create the opposite effect, but 9 times in 10 let's assume that you fall over.

The hard hat deals with part of the problem allowing other mechanisms to do their bit. So it is better to wear one than not when there is a risk of injuring your head.

 

This isn't meant to sound patronising (though it will); there seems to be a reluctance to accept that s**t happens.

Thankfully it doesn't happen often, but talk to someone who has survived or been involved closely with something life threatening and I bet you they'll do anything to improve their chances in future.

The difference is that they know it can happen, rather than those who, because they haven't seen it happen, don't believe it can or will happen, or only to someone else.