Sennheiser G3 series compatability

[ph507]

Hi,

 

Just wondering if anyone knows if the Sennheiser Evolution G3 series radio microphones are compatible with the G2 series. The frequency plans seem to be different.

 

Many thanks.

[Rob_Beech]

From what I've heard they are compatible, though I'm not sure how the pilot tone comes into play.

[AndyL]

From what I've heard they are compatible, though I'm not sure how the pilot tone comes into play.

Pilot tone is the same on G2 and G3 so there is no issue there.

 

G3 is backwards compatible with G2 (and even 'G1') so long as the frequencies match.

 

G3 has a wider tuning window than G2, 42MHz wide for G3 v 36MHz wide for G2 (hence the different frequency plans), but in each case the equivalent, smaller, G2 range is covered by the larger G3 range:

 

e.g. 'Range E'

G2 = 830MHz to 866MHz

G3 = 823MHz to 865MHz

 

There were five frequency range variants in G2; A, B, C, D and E. There are currently six frequency range variants in G3; A, B, C, D, E and G.

 

You can find out more about what each frequency range covers by clicking on the 'Variants' tab of the relevant product pages on the Sennheiser web site.

[Shez]

Andy,

 

For those people that invest in G3 systems over the next couple of years, can you shed any light on how easy or otherwise it would be to have the E range modded to work on ch.38? I imagine this will be a significant concern for any systems bought before the DSO.

 

Thanks.

[StevieR]

... can you shed any light on how easy or otherwise it would be to have the E range modded to work on ch.38? I imagine this will be a significant concern for any systems bought before the DSO.

 

From my discussion with our rep, the whole RF stage would have to be changed along with a software upgrade. This is quite an expensive option and not viable at the price of these units. It really would be a case of replace the whole thing!

 

One point that came out of a lot of the discussions that I have had with Sennheiser, Shure and others is that they all feel that the governments planned 'change-over' date will slip as the current arrangements are completely impractical. Based on this assumption, new units purchased now and operated within chan 69 should get you a good number of years work before being forced into retirement. For some heavy users that would be their standard lifetime anyway!

 

Steve

[AndyL]

Andy,

 

For those people that invest in G3 systems over the next couple of years, can you shed any light on how easy or otherwise it would be to have the E range modded to work on ch.38? I imagine this will be a significant concern for any systems bought before the DSO.

 

Thanks.

Very 'easy' Shez. :D

 

You send the kit to Sennheiser UK. They change the boards and anything else that needs to be done. Then they send it back to you. Yes, you will have to pay them some money (that's the hard bit), but a lot less than buying replacement kit.

 

As for it being a DIY job, no. The days of just changing a crystal or a few R's and C's have gone I'm afraid. It's a specialist job :D

[dirkenstein]

You send the kit to Sennheiser UK. They change the boards and anything else that needs to be done. Then they send it back to you. Yes, you will have to pay them some money (that's the hard bit), but a lot less than buying replacement kit.

 

As for it being a DIY job, no. The days of just changing a crystal or a few R's and C's have gone I'm afraid. It's a specialist job :D

 

So actually you're confirming that Sennheiser UK will be willing to 're-tune' (essentially change the RF stage boards/subassemblies in TX/RX) EW100/300/500 G3 band E units to ch38 for a fee significantly less than the RRP of the new units?

 

Will this apply to G1 and G2 units as well?

 

This is in fact news. As Sennheiser previously only annouced its willingness to carry out these procedures on SK3000/5000 units AFAIK.

 

I always believed that this re-tune would be the equivalent of changing a number of pre-tuned component assemblies which meant the idea of carrying out the work DIY was probably out of the question without a fulll service manual and a serious quantity of RF test gear. And an experimental radio license or one of those sealed metal anti-RF test cabinets.

[AndyL]

From my discussion with our rep, the whole RF stage would have to be changed along with a software upgrade. This is quite an expensive option and not viable at the price of these units. It really would be a case of replace the whole thing!

 

Steve

Not viable? Replace the whole thing? I beg to differ!

 

Please do not jump to conclusions.

 

And bear in mind we are discussing G3 systems, not G2.

 

Perhaps you could be so kind as to PM me with the name of your 'rep' so I can discuss this with him? :D

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Will this apply to G1 and G2 units as well?

 

No.

[Simon Lewis]

Will this apply to G1 and G2 units as well?

No.

 

So, is there no possibility of G1 / G2 system being converted to channel 38, or is it simply uneconomical?

 

Simon

[boswell]

If you look at the standard freq groups for G3, they don't have one that covers Ch38, so it would have to be a special for the UK market!!

The G3 'B' range just clips into the very bottom of Ch38 by 2Mhz

 

G2 they don't have anything anywhere near so I don't think it will be an option

[AndyL]

Will this apply to G1 and G2 units as well?

No.

 

So, is there no possibility of G1 / G2 system being converted to channel 38, or is it simply uneconomical?

 

Simon

There is no possibility of G1 / G2 systems being converted to channel 38, correct.

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

If you look at the standard freq groups for G3, they don't have one that covers Ch38, so it would have to be a special for the UK market!!

The G3 'B' range just clips into the very bottom of Ch38 by 2Mhz

 

Also correct....

 

BUT: Watch this space!

[Lion Tamer]

Having just asked Sennheiser directly about what systems are convertible to the new frequencies I thought that I would share their reply/statement with you.

 

Sennheiser UK Statement on current and future UHF Spectrum and Product Availability – November 2009

 

Section 1 – Spectrum Availability

Section 2 – Sennheiser Product Availability

 

Section 1 - SPECTRUM AVAILABILITY

Many customers have contacted Sennheiser UK recently seeking clarification on what the future may look like for wireless microphone and in-ear monitor users, both in terms of what areas of spectrum will be available for the use of these pieces of equipment, and what equipment will be available for use in that spectrum. The intention of this document is to answer these questions as best we can, given the current circumstances.

 

De-regulated/license exempt frequencies – 863-865 MHz (in channel 70)

There are no plans for any changes in this de-regulated area of spectrum. Low channel count community users will be able to continue accessing this ‘free’ sub-band - 2MHz of channel 70. For example, with range E evolution G2 wireless microphone systems it is possible to run up to four compatible frequencies in this band, while with the new G3 systems this number increases to six. For many wireless microphone users in the MI, Houses of Worship, Corporate, Install and Retail markets this may well prove to be beneficial.

 

Channel 38 – the new channel 69?

Channel 69 (854-862 MHz) is unique in that it is the only nationally licensable TV band set aside for wireless microphone use right across the UK. Over the next three years wireless microphone users will have to vacate channel 69 as it has been designated as part of a larger spectrum band that will be re-allocated for new services, most likely mobile broadband. The UK regulator, Ofcom, has confirmed that, as a replacement for channel 69, an alternative TV band, channel 38 (606-614 MHz), will be made available for wireless microphone use. However, the whole of channel 38 is not currently available nationally for two main reasons:

 

1) Radio-Astronomy – the current users of channel 38 are not due to vacate the band until 1st January 2012. Consequently, there are certain areas of the UK that are currently ‘off-limits’.

2) Broadcasting - there will continue to be a need to protect analogue broadcasting in adjacent band channel 37, right up until DSO is complete, scheduled for the latter part of 2012. So again, there are regions where channel 38 is not currently available.

To complicate matters further, the availability of channel 38 differs dramatically depending on whether wireless equipment is being used indoors or outdoors. Consequently, our view is that there should be no great rush to occupy channel 38.

 

What about channel 69 – how long will it continue to be available?

We expect that channel 69 will continue to be available for wireless microphones and in-ear monitor use until at least the end of 2011, but most likely until DSO is complete, again, in the latter part of 2012. Ofcom have recently confirmed that channel 69 and all of the spectrum scheduled for re-allocation will be available to cover the London 2012 Olympics. Consequently, there is no immediate hurry to vacate the band.

 

What Spectrum is to be re-allocated for new uses/services?

Two blocks of spectrum are due to be re-allocated. The first block is commonly referred to as ‘the 800MHz band’ – the actual frequencies are 790 MHz to 862 MHz – channels 61-69 inclusive. The second block, lower down the frequency range, channels 31 to 37 (550 to 606 MHz), are also due to be re-allocated, however, plans for the re-use of this band are not as well advanced as they are for the 800 MHz band.

 

 

 

 

Section 2 - SENNHEISER PRODUCT AVAILABILITY

Over time, there will be a need for wireless microphones and in-ear monitor systems to be either replaced or converted in order that units will be able to transmit and receive in the ‘new’ areas of spectrum – primarily channel 38. This section of the document seeks to clarify which Sennheiser wireless systems and components will be convertible and which will not.

 

Freeport – No change – licence exempt operation only - 863 to 865 MHz.

 

Evolution G1 Series – Not convertible – but will still be capable of operating in the licence exempt band 863 to 865 MHz.

 

Evolution G2 Series – Not convertible ­– but will still be capable of operating on the four pre-programmed frequencies in the licence exempt band 863 to 865 MHz.

 

Evolution G3 Series – Will be convertible – to meet the challenge of this unprecedented situation, work is in progress by Sennheiser to produce a new version of G3 that will tune across channels 38, 39, 40, 41 and part of channel 42. When the relevant parts become available this will enable current G3 systems to be converted for operation on the new lower frequencies, if required. It should be noted that Sennheiser G3 Range E wireless microphone systems are capable of operating simultaneously, intermodulation free, on six frequencies in the license exempt 863-865 MHz band. These frequencies are;

 

863.100 MHz

863.400 MHz

863.750 MHz

864.225 MHz

864.550 MHz

864.975 MHz

 

So, for many users, conversion from Range E status and licensing of frequencies may not be necessary.

 

2000 Series – 2000 Series is already capable of tuning to channel 38. Available now, the Range GW version covers channel 38 as well as frequencies above and below this channel – actual tuning range is 558-626 MHz – 68 MHz in total.

 

3000/5000 Series – Version/model dependent. Most receivers and some transmitters will be convertible but checking with Sennheiser UK Engineering is recommended.

 

Conversion costs and timing

At time of writing it is not possible to predict precisely what costs will be associated with any conversion processes. This is because production costs have yet to be finalised. In terms of timescales for conversion of equipment, Sennheiser UK will work with our customers to efficiently plan practical schedules in order that the work can be successfully completed. Licensed channel 69 users may also receive financial assistance from HM Government or Ofcom. However, the details of the Government’s proposed funding scheme to assist with the migration from channel 69 have yet to be finalised. Sennheiser UK will issue further information when details of this scheme are finally released.

 

Current and future licensing of channel 38 – Current plans suggest that channel 38 will eventually be licensable in a manner similar to the existing arrangements for channel 69 – a national shared licence. At present, frequencies in channel 38 need to be licensed on a ‘where, when and for how long’ basis. When DSO is complete current thinking is that channel’s 39, 40, 41 and 42 will be licensable on an interleaved basis. However, during the transition period it is likely that channels 38, 39 and 40 will be available on a ‘coordinated shared’ basis. Again, work here is still on going and enquiries regarding current and future licensing arrangements should be addressed to JFMG Ltd. They can be contacted on 0207 299 8660.

 

In conclusion

So, as things currently stand, it is likely that equipment that tunes to the frequencies affected will continue to be useable until the third quarter of 2012. Sennheiser customers buying range E G3 equipment now will be able to have this equipment converted to new frequencies once the current on-going development work has been completed. Or, if fewer than 6 frequencies are required at a given location, then the licence exempt band will continue to offer a solution.

 

Whatever the future holds for wireless microphone and in-ear monitor users, Sennheiser UK will do all in its power to support and assist our customers – from maintaining our full engagement with the on-going debate to retain access to spectrum for wireless microphone users, to manufacturing the best wireless tools that enable our customers to make the most of that spectrum access.

 

If you require any further information, please contact our Technical Support Team on 01494 551551

 

Sennheiser UK – November 2009

 

Jem

[paulears]

I suppose that we'll just have to accept that many users, post switchover, will just hunt for channels local to them that appear to be quiet, and use them with fingers crossed. Nobody is going to spend any time policing it, and the depending where you are, this could well be a solution to the vast proportion of people who have no idea they even need a license.

 

I didn't realise that G1 and G2 were not upgradable - but can see Sennheiser's reasons. Makes a bad situation even worse. I've been going through my accounts, looking for things for the accountant, and while I was at it, looked for invoices for my radio kit. I can find just over half of the invoices for G2 kit, and just two of my G1 older ones that are still in regular use. I can't see any form of compensation without them, so it's looking a bit bleak.

[slim_mcslim]

A conversation I had the other day hypothesised whether a "middle man" would pop up in the radio mic retuning market, like a 3rd party aftermarket service, just send your radios to Tuning Terry and he will replace the boards for half the price of that of the original manufacturer.

 

Kinda like the aftermarket service for battery replacement in mac laptops, advertised on ebay etc.

 

 

P.

[Solstace]

Another G2/G3 compatibility Q:

 

Can I interchange the heads from our handheld G2-EW365 mic's to the G3 EW165 or 365? If so, that might mean we can keep some spare heads for the newer mics and help us retain some value from our old stock post Ch-69 loss...