smoke detectors

[misterbassman]

I have seen on a lot of posts that people often switch fire alarms off in venues so that they can use smoke. Just wondering how many of you do this and what your views on it are.

 

thanks

[robloxley]

Errr, your licensing officer would have a fit if you even suggested turning off the fire alarm. What many systems allow is for stage and auditorium smoke sensors to be temporarily disabled for use of smoke effects. This however leaves the rest of the zones and MCPs etc. working!

 

We do it regularly and have no problems with the practice. If there is a real fire then the stage manager or FOH staff etc. can activate their nearest MCP as usual. In order that you don't leave the alarm isolated when the building is unoccupied, the alarm beeps in an irritating fashion when any sensor is isolated. Also as a backup, setting the burglar alarm de-isolates the stage and auditorium sensors, in case you forget when locking up.

[misterbassman]

Ok thanks now just got to work out how to disable individual sensors/zones.

Venue doesnt have a burglar alarm.

[wodp]

System we have at a first leisure venue has fancy dual-function sensors. In normal mode (daytime) they work on the old smoke detector principle (smoke gets into unit, blocks radioactive rays coming from a small transmitter and sets alarm off). When we push the depressed button about an hour before opening it goes into heat only mode (i.e. we can flood the main room with smoke from our lovely jem club smoke system without calling the fire brigade and evacuation 2,200ish ppl).

 

Dave

[Tomo]

That's the system used at many venues.

 

During the day, or when no smoke is being used, the detectors work on the standard "smoke" system.

By use of a key in the control box, the detectors in various zones can be changed over to "Heat" mode, where they go off if they detect hotspots or ambient overtemp (depending on model)

 

One of our older venues had no detectors at all, and so smoking and flame were completely banned*, but apparently it was okay because of the fire break glass boxes around the venue.

 

One thing to remember though - it's not funny to get two fire engines turning up when there's no fire.

 

Oh yeah:

It's a criminal offence to break a fire break glass unless it's an emergency.

(Under the H&S At work Act 1974)

 

Might be worth pointing that out if you have idiots in the venue.

 

*Except when a director had a hissy fit at a certain member of the Union Exec, and between them they had a good try at burning the place down.

I never will understand how she interpreted "Do NOT light that cigarette" as "Light it if you feel like it, and candles are okay too"

[Brian]

I think it goes without saying that you should discuss this with your local licensing officer/fire officer BEFORE you make any changes.

[robloxley]

One thing to remember though - it's not funny to get two fire engines turning up when there's no fire.

Though if you ask the fire brigade they'd rather turn up and it be a false alert than have to rescue hundreds of people from a burning building.

 

Also, as for sensors you can get ionisation or optical smoke detectors, and fixed temperature or rate-of-rise of temperature heat detectors, and indeed flame detectors which look for IR emission of the flame.

[mike]

But I think the fire brigade love it for the other reason also... the £100+ call out for false alarms?

Or am I being naughty...

mike

[robloxley]

Obviously we have quite a good working relationship with the fire brigade - don't call them out too often, lend them a mirror ball and some flashy lights for their Christmas parties etc., fill the theatre with vast amounts of smoke occasionally for them to do training scenarios - but even having said that I've yet to actually come across a fire brigade charging for the odd false alarm. YMMV obviously.

[James]

I'm fairly sure at my old venue we were charged £1K per tender that arrived* (Normally 2 arrived given the size of the place)

 

Last time I remember a false I was working in the theatre, doing some maintinance when a couple of girls in the bar decided what would happen if they set light to their dead fag packet in the ash tray.

 

Whole building evacuated. The girls were barred. And I discovered that the stage fire exit (down) was also the swimming pool fire exit (up) so despite having no-one in the theatre was kept occupied helping the pool staff look after dozens of wet costumed dripping students at 10PM outside in London in the winter.

 

Fun.

 

*Though that is what we were told as staff, I have no evidence to if this was enforced and by whom...

[Fiona]

If I remember correctly from a theatre I worked in - we had some kind of arrangement that we were only charged after the 3rd false call out - seemed to work quite well.

[Thirdtap]

I have set the fire alarm off once by sweeping up in a small cellar room.

Lots of concrete dust and not enough air. Brigade turn up automatically for the venue, at least when I took them down to the cellar they did praise my nice clean floor.

[DSA]

Sorry to open this up again, however today when I double checked with the deputy head re turning off the smoke detectors next week, so that I can use a hazer for the rock concert, he did not sound very happy.

 

He said that they 'usually say no to smoke'

 

'you cant turn the fire alarm off' to this I said that the call points would still work.

 

he said that 'thats only any good if someone sees the fire' and 'the alarm works by detecting smoke, so why turn them off!'

 

I didnt really have any reply, other than they have done it in the past for drama productions, and I had already checked with the caretaker (and indeed the head of drama), and he said it would be fine(!!!).

 

I just wondered what your thoughts were. How would you respond? Is there paperwork I could show him for clarification etc? Of course I could scrap the hazer, and use the £14 to get something else - but as many of you keep saying, a hazer would make such a difference to the show.

 

Naturally, however, public safety must come priority.

 

The school is quite new (~10yrs), so it is quite possible that they dont even detect smoke (but just heat, as someone said above). I dont suppose there is any way of checking is there? (esp as I dont have a clue about fire alarms!)

 

Thanks,

David

[sam.henderson]

I'd say your deputy head obviously isn't an expert in the subject!

 

Smoke alarms in certain zones can be legally deactivated without their being any problems at all, I would try and get your HoD or Caretaker to speak to him and clear things up and also create a comprehensive Risk assessment for him.

 

Sam

[Ike]

Before you you turn off anything fire alarm related you should check with your FIRE OFFICER if it has not been done before or if the circumstances are different, if you have thought about the risks involved and other measures to be brought in (immediate reactivation after performance, more people on hand to raise alarm in case of fire etc.) and have got a written record of this the fire officer will usually just say ok or maybe suggest something else you should add to the list.