andy jackson Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 As I said I will keep it short and sweet... Mr A was contracted to do a job, during this time he worked 58 hours overtime, which was promised as TOIL, he was non to happy but accepted the agreement as there was no cash alternative! As it happens there was no chance to take this time off as he was busy and the date he had to take the time off by was fast approaching. He pops in to see the personnel manager to discuss this predicament Mrs H the personnel manager (in a soft Scottish accent) says she understands the point and the heavy work load and that she will pay him a nice juicy lump sum in next months pay packed. Mr A walks away with a big smile on his face. The 28th of the month comes (pay day) and Mr. A opens his pay slip to see that there is just his basic with no overtime on top. When he enquires about this he is told that it was his fault that he didn't take the time off, and, that although the work had been done and although he had adhered to the point in his contract which states 'is to work the required hours that a production requires' (or something like that) the company had brought into force a new rule - in this quarter not when the toil was accrued - he was never going to get paid for it, even if he was right and they were wrong. To this end Mr A feels extremely pi55ed (am I allowed to use that? Sorry if it causes offence, just in case I will cunningly disguise it) And has no idea of what course of action to take, if there is one, because of bad management he is out of pocket by a fair few quid - just over a grand at his over time rate. and really wants to rig a nice rusty patt123 to fall on Mrs H's head next time she appears in the Theatre - 81tch! Im terribly sorry if I have rambled but I'm so frustrated, and hate feeling like Senior Management have given me the V's and don't intend on looking into the situation further. Then to make me really mad after telling me there were no funds to pay for the overtime I receive an email from the SMT asking for my support and that payment was not an issue dut to budget allocation 80LL0ck5. Is there any part of the law which specificaly concerns this? Or has anyone been in this or a similar situation before? Alternatively is any one looking for an Extreemly good (even though I do say so my self) technician who has run a 200 seat studio, 150 seat dance studio and two 100 seat studios for the past year or so managing everything form people to PAT in the north west? No? ah well Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 First thoughts:- Find something heavier than a 123, I'd go for a 243 at a very minimum. Personnel depts have NO CLUE as to what happens in the same organisation. Next - Go over her head, right to the top. Are you Sorry, is Mr A working for a local authority? They will really hate being hauled over the coals. Someone local to me, and on this forum (Eldar??) was in a similar position, and ISTR it got sorted when someone up the food chain found out! Speak to your union. Speak to your solicitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 a while ago my colleague and I found ourselves in a similar position, working for a touring company (not our current employers) with a fixed term contract where there was clearly not enough time to take the toil we'd accrued before the end of the contract. this was settled amicably and appropropriately by an offer of cash in lieu of toil. It sounds like industrial relations have deteriorated to the point where perhaps you have nothing to lose, so maybe you should take the time off you are owed regardless of your workload. It then becomes the responsibility of the employer to find cover, or explain to the venue users why there is no technical support available. Without seeing the small print, I can't be sure of course, but if Time Off in lieu of overtime forms part of your contract of employment, and your employer is not giving you the opportunity to take time that you've accrued, or is enforcing unreasonable deadlines within which you have to take this time, then they may be in breach of contract, and an industrial tribunal may be an appropriate course of action. As Andrew C says - if you're a member of a union they will be able to offer support in these circumstances. I'm really not a big fan of TOIL - it works in some circumstances, for example our office based staff usually do 9-5 monday to friday, so it's relatively straightforward to administer toil for occasional weekend work. For our performance based staff, work "out of normal hours" is much more frequent, so it's appropriate and fair to make payments for overtime worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jram Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Can I be the first non-Andrew/Andy to post in this thread? I'd suggest a phonecall to your local Citizen's Advice Bureau, on top of all the previous recommendations about unions and high-heid-yins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 If 'Mr A' is in a union, they MUST be the first port of call, as you (he) may not be the only one. Legally, I suspect that the personel chappie may just deny mentioning it. If you (he) aren't too bothered about making yourself unpopular, why not just announce you will be missing taking your TOIL at a most inconvenient moment. That said, when I was at college, the same thing happened and I was told to take the TOIL during my holiday! The only practical thing from now on is don't do TOIL without it in writing or email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldar Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Hello, As mentioned by Andrew C I was in a similar situation to you -being told that my hours were TOIL but never having the time to take them. I was having to do it every week and this makes your situation a little different as it's 'just' the one occasion. But that doesn't matter, you were promised something and then promised something different and neither happened. My advice to to take it higher until someone has to listen to you, find out also where you stand legally. But what ever you do don't stop making a noise about it until it is satisfactory resolved. For the record I am now not working over my standard college hours, unless I get the time back. I made alot of noise, became quite ill and had to take time off where the place didn't function without me. Personnel peeps got involved when they saw the amount of hours I had to take and finally the whole situation got reviewed. I also learnt to put my foot down and say NO! The organisation had to realise that one person cannot do two totally separate jobs, so I do my day job and then freelance my evenings for casual pay. So I'm getting somewhere. Thanks everyone for your advice. I hope 'Mr A' gets it sorted, just don't stop trying to -they would love it if you crawled back under your tech rock, and then they'll do it all to you again. eldar (sounding a little bitter, I know ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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