What desk for med size generics + intelligents

[BlueShift]

If you're using the desk in wide mode to control 48 channels of dimming then yes, you will not have faders to control those channels directly. However, this does not mean you cannot use them. You can still program those channels into submasters before you assign the submasters to the channel faders.

 

I think that's right, anyway.

 

Adam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh yes, im well aware that you can control many more dimming channels than are available on the faders - but for the novice user its great to have them all there to just whack up a preset without having to delve into keypad programming. Im just trying to be aware of how idiot friendly this will end up being.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[Freddie]

The zero88 desks are good value and good at what they do - how is the video display on them?

It's not bad. I'm not so keen on the way everything is orientated around the cuestack though - to record a sub you have to record to the cuestack first then copy it to a sub. That's just me though. There are only two views availiable as far as I remember - the cuestack and the preview window (showing all the channels).

<snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You can record a sub from the faderbank without going via the cuestack. (Set up scene on presets, press submasters, choose the sub & page, then hit program.)

[merlin24]

It's not bad. I'm not so keen on the way everything is orientated around the cuestack though - to record a sub you have to record to the cuestack first then copy it to a sub. That's just me though. There are only two views availiable as far as I remember - the cuestack and the preview window (showing all the channels).

To record a Submaster or Assign Master on the Event 408 or 416, the process is:

 

Set look on faders.

Hold down RECORD.

Press the flash button under the fader you would like it to be on.

 

Sub recorded.

 

IIRC from the demo Andy gave me at the AC North show, you can assign the bottom right bank of 12 channel faders to be an additional 12 subs - making the 20 in total he mentions above.

 

"I assume this is at the cost of 12 control channels for dimmers and the like?"

You lose direct fader access to the channels but you still have access to them via the numeric keypad.

 

Regards

Andy

 

Moderation: Two posts merged, please use the edit button

[BlueShift]

yes of course, that is understood.

 

Now tell me, what exactly does the little LCD screen above the submasters display?

 

and are it and the other LCD backlit at all?

 

Lastly, is there any way I can have a look at what the output of the VDU looks like? perhaps a website with some pics?

 

Cheers

[Tom Baldwin]

The LCDs are backlit.

They're used for an eight character label identifying the memory/ chase that you've loaded. If you run a stack, then the memories involved in the stack are displayed.

 

The VDU is pretty poor - it looks like a bad add-on. The display is character based (no complaint about that), but it only displays a small subset of the available information at any one time - for example, you can't see the output level of faders (==generics), scrollers and movers simultaneously. Also, the mode of the screen changes automatically during some operations (mainly programming, but also programmer manipulation) - so even when you have it set up as you like it, it won't stay that way.

 

Unfortunately, the number of subs is very limiting. It takes too many key presses to reload the subs, so busking is really painful.

 

Where are you located? Might be possible to come and see ours, if I've not given it flying lessons by then...

[merlin24]

yes of course, that is understood.

 

Now tell me, what exactly does the little LCD screen above the submasters display?

 

and are it and the other LCD backlit at all?

 

Lastly, is there any way I can have a look at what the output of the VDU looks like? perhaps a website with some pics?

 

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The LCD above the subs displays what memory number is currently on that particular fader.

 

The LCD's are all back lit

 

Unfortunately I do not know of anywhere where you can see the VDU output. Although I can tell you that the VDU is really a reference tool more than it is interactive like the Hogs and such like. You can obviously label things such as palletes.

 

Kind Regards

Andy.

[BlueShift]

The LCDs are backlit.

They're used for an eight character label identifying the memory/ chase that you've loaded. If you run a stack, then the memories involved in the stack are displayed.

 

The VDU is pretty poor - it looks like a bad add-on. The display is character based (no complaint about that), but it only displays a small subset of the available information at any one time - for example, you can't see the output level of faders (==generics), scrollers and movers simultaneously. Also, the mode of the screen changes automatically during some operations (mainly programming, but also programmer manipulation) - so even when you have it set up as you like it, it won't stay that way.

 

Unfortunately, the number of subs is very limiting. It takes too many key presses to reload the subs, so busking is really painful.

 

Where are you located? Might be possible to come and see ours, if I've not given it flying lessons by then...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Im in hertfordshire - near watford.

 

Soul Survivor (the church in question) is located in watford.

 

I guess its all down to preference isnt it? I wont be down very faced paced or massivly dynamic shows - more of just changing static states with some subtle mover and colorchanger manipulation so I dont need a desk I can busk at lightning speed on. I do need a hybrid between theater cue stacking and live rock n' roll busking though. the leap frog has a great feature set but is limited by its expandability (since it only has 48 channels of dimmer control and 24 movers, although the latter is a non issue). a bullfrog is the price of an event 408 and is a whole lot bigger. the 416 would be a great board but its a little out of my budget - and perhaps a little excessive for what I wanna do.

[napmusic]

Hi matey

 

I use a Zero 88 Mambo Frog. This desk is mainly for movers and is highly adaptable if you know what you are doing (and it does take a bit of time). The Fat Frog is a nice desk as well and will control your dimmers with ease as well as controlling movers. Check out www.zero88.com , or better still go to PLAZA at Earls Court, London if you can and take a look at what's on offer.

 

The FAT FROG SPEC IS:

 

 

24/48 dimmer channels

Softpatch

24 palettes for Colour, Beamshape, Position

12 Moving Lights

FROG Autochase function

'GO' button for memory playback

SVGA Monitor ouput

240 submasters

999 Memories

Disk Drive

Effects Generator

Fixture library with over 700 moving lights

2 DMX Outputs

 

If money no object or if you can get a good second hand one then go for a PEARL it's the most user friendly desk I have used, but be careful and check the pedigree of any second hand desk, ask to see it working and take someone along who knows there stuff otherwise you could buy an expensive lemon.

 

Good Luck

 

Mike

[BlueShift]

Basically my current wish list stands as follows:

 

Most wanted: Pearl

Close Second: Event 408

If budget doesnt stretch: leap frog

 

Cheers

[si pie]

I would say if you know how to use the fatfrog then the leap frog and bull frog have similar operating software on them so you will find them easier to use.

 

They also have a game on..... for those really interesting sermons!!!

 

Simon

[BlueShift]

Hahaha - this is true.

 

The leap frog is a good fallback option for us because it will do everything we want.

 

However, the 408 is definately a more capable desk as well as being a little simpler to program than a frog (less keystrokes).

The pearl has more control than a 408 and the legendary rolacue submasters which are just the best to busk with.

 

So you get what you pay for really. I wont be unsatisfied with any of those desks - they all do the job, just some slightly better than others.

[gareth]

You could also look at the Strand 300. It has an internal hard drive and USB (so you can save shows on a USB key).

Nope. You can't save shows to a USB key from GeniusPro - only to the internal HDD or to floppy.

 

You're not doing at all well at getting your facts right in this topic, are you, Adam? ;)

[KindredHyperion]

Dammit - wrong again! B-)

 

I was sure someone told me I could.

 

I'll get my coat :(

[Zak]

I'm sure the OP selected a desk long ago, but I thought I'd throw in another option since this is linked from the FAQ: the JB Licon 1X. Moving light programming and playback is almost identical to the MA Scancommander, with a few extra options (which is to say, quicker and easier than anything I've seen from Zero88 or Avolites). Conventional light programming is a little less convenient than some of the other desks mentioned as it lacks dedicated channel faders. There are 12 submasters for conventional lights. Four of them can be used for chases as well as scenes. There are 8 separate submasters for groups of moving lights - the desk can control up to 32 moving lights. There are three pages and four banks, which effectively work as 12 pages. It has a USB port for data storage and software updates, a touch screen and can use a trackball or mouse. I found it for sale here for 3044 GBP. Here's a high-resolution photo (jpeg, 1.3 MB).

 

I have used several variants of Frog and many Pearls (2000 and 2004 models). I much prefer the Licon, though it may not be as appropriate for the OP's purposes.

[paulears]

The OP asked for comment on the avo azure shadow.

 

The 2000 (non-shadow is the most horrible desk I have ever used, and I've had two when I had to use them!)

At least the shadow has the usual buttons - not the disgusting membrane.

 

The snag is that it is too small, and has too few faders to do the things the bigger pearls do so easily - so although you can slap things on the buttons for instant access this isn't that useful apart from in a club setting, where a quick stab of button goes into a new sequence. The pearls are great for building sequences and then recalling the results via faders or buttons - but it sounds to me that what you want is the ability to go slowly from one 'look' to another, and in a manual, controllable way - for this, the more faders, the better. Even bank switching is a bit of a nuisance. I've got a desk that has plenty of faders, and banks - but wherever possible for the simpler shows I try to work on just one - most of my operating mistakes are to do with forgetting a states up on a different preset to the one I'm currently on - despite the flashing lights and comments in the LCD screens.