Congregation mic (small venue, modern worship music)

[Andrew HopeCity]

I'm looking for suggestions for a congregation mic. & placement.  This is for our live stream where we want to pick up as much of the congregational singing as we can. Congregation is usually ~175 and the problems are most acute when we have a full band (drums, bass, acoustic & electric guitars, keys) at which point, the current boundary mics pick up lots of stage sound, but little of the congregation.  Venue (pictured) was originally office space so has a fairly low ceiling, and we're filling it, so the front row is very close to the stage.

Somebody suggested a short shotgun, but I don't know whether they're excessively directional in this setting - and therefore likely to pick up one or two individuals but miss the fuller sound.  Also, where would you suggest placing the mics?  The front lighting bar doesn't seem ideal because it's so close to the stage (and the speakers).  The rear one doesn't seem ideal because much of the congregation sit in front of it.  If we were to go with the front bar, (I) can you get mics with suitably good off-axis rejection such that they really don't pick up much stage sound and (ii) can you get mounting adaptors for the mics the would hold them angled back towards the congregation?

Any ideas very welcome, thanks.

[paulears]

Short shotguns are nowhere as narrow as people often think. Critically, it's the rejection at the rear that's important, so making sure the rear faces the unwanted sound sources is good. You might discover from the lighting bar position, that the stage sound creeps into the side lobes. Maybe you could hire/borrow some different types - Sennheiser 416, Audio technical (the longer and shorter ones) and simply try them out and record their output to assess. They might work better lower down, so the rear faces the amps and drums, PA etc. Don't expect too much, they'll be much better than boundaries - but the usual caveats apply - unless they sing out, it doesn't work that well.

[sandall]

As Paul says, short shotguns aren't that narrow. Looking at your photo I would suggest 2 or 3 across the rear bar, angled fairly steeply down away from the stage &, if possible, do a band-only rehearsal, adjusting the mic angles for minimum band pickup. You won't cover the whole congregation, but nor will you pick up individuals, unless only a few actually sing, in which case you have a problem anyway! If the congregation sound a bit "thin" try adding a bit of Chorus Fx (Ok, it's a cheat, but then sound balancing always is). 

[p.k.roberts]

Don't forget that the 'deadest' part of the pickup pattern of a shotgun is not at the rear - you can see that if you have a look this example of a 416 polar pickup diagram,

https://assets.sennheiser.com/global-downloads/file/18858/SP_1303_v1.0_MKH_416_Product_Specification_EN.pdf

so if you do go down that route, experiment with the positioning would help to optimise the pickup. It's also worth noting that the the pickup at lower frequencies is much wider, so a bit of judicious high pass filtering will also help a bit.

It was quite common, in the dim and distant past, for audience mics in TV studios to be figure 8 mics, suspended so the dead areas of pickup faced pa speakers and performers. If you were able to borrow one or two, it might be worth experimenting with those too.

[sandall]

2 hours ago, p.k.roberts said:

It was quite common, in the dim and distant past, for audience mics in TV studios to be figure 8 mics, suspended so the dead areas of pickup faced pa speakers and performers. If you were able to borrow one or two, it might be worth experimenting with those too.

It worked (sort-of) in (very) high-ceilinged studios, but in this case the proximity of the rear lobe to the (presumably non-absorbent) ceiling would almost certainly make the problem even worse.