LEDs for large Stage

[BobJ]

We run some Chauvet Corepar 80, ADJ Encore spots and a couple of ADJ Cannons on our small stage. But I have been asked to recommend some LEDs for our larger (35 x 40') stage to "add some color"! I've used a couple of the C80 and think they are fine but we there are no barndoors for them. If you had to put some LEDs up onto a big stage what would you go for? They'll be used alongside regular (legacy,) Fresnels. ould you go for? They'll be used alongside regular (legacy,) Fresnels.

Edited October 18, 2019 by BobJ

[david.elsbury]

What wattage are your existing fresnels- 1kw?

[BobJ]

Usually 500 Watt tungsten halogens off a ETC Sensor48 dimmer stack

[paulears]

For one show three years ago, I put up 8 cheap Chinese RGBW zoom 36x10W. Our stage is 12m x 10m and for the first time ever, we had an even and VERY bright wash. They never came down! I've subsequently bought quite a few more. The only downside to them is that they're a bit noisy. The current show we finish tonight has for a couple of scenes our 1K Fresnels and while I still like them, I'd almost forgotten how difficult it is to get and even wash without hotspots the video cameras reveal! Nudging the movers can cure all the issues you'd normally barn door them, although obviously you can't do a semi-hard edge. The disadvantage, is that the 8 LEDs give Source 4's on the truss a harder job when used as specials or face lights - they just manage, but our older Strand 1.2Ks struggle with brightness. Our 1200W discharge followspots also look dim, so brightness in any colour is now normal. I can't think about going back.

[BobJ]

8 cheap Chinese RGBW zoom 36x10W.

 

This sounds interesting. I Googled RGBW zoom 36x 10W and came up with several. But they were all moving heads. Are yours? I notice that a large (and very well funded) theater near us has 3 rows of 5 large Martin Macs. THey claim they have to very little re-positing becasue they can quickly change the way these things point and they only nead so few becuase a/ they don't have to put up different Fresnels with different gels to cover color situations and b/ One lamp can be used to point to different locations in different scenes. They aren't LED but I think the two points (multicolor and remote pointing) seem to be gaining in popularity.

Your point about Fresnels hotspots totally intrique'd me becuase I notice that our lighting designer using Fresnel want ot get rid of such to the point that we sometimes have as many as 50 Fresnels over the stage and 20 or more Elipsiods on the auditorium bars, to get chase shadows and smooth out hot spots! Even a couple of our paltry ADJ Cannons seem to give a much more homogeous wash across the stage, so several more (evne LEDs) would seem like a good idea to me. The tech involved (multi DMX addresses, pand tilt and color control) and moving away from a total Fresnel invasion will be e big jump for our guys, but one I am sure they will have to make some days.

 

 

That 36 x 10W woudl indicate a rough comparision to a 500W Fresenl so the brightness is not too far off. And, as we discussed the LED woudl be sans hot spot etc etc.

Thanks again for a most interesting input and I am off to look up more on these 36 x 10 guys.

[paulears]

No the 36 x 10w is brighter than a 1k in anything other than open white and with rgb and white all on its brighter. Yes they’re movers but that has no price premium over a tungsten fresnel and they’re just so useful, you our space, like mine would take a lot of filling for even cover in just one colour. My leds can do any colour meaning a third the quantity of actual fixtures

[BobJ]

No the 36 x 10w is brighter than a 1k in anything other than open white

 

 

Ouch you bought up a darn good point and one that I totally forgot about when comparing legacy lamps and LED's. Once you put a gel on the legacy you lose a significant amount of output. So, I just ordered a couple of 36 x 10s to put over the stage and compare to other legacy and LEDs we have.

Not quite sure why movers don't have a price premium. If I want to light two different corners at two different times I would have to put two Fresnels or Ellipsoids - but a single "mover" could be turned from one position to the next. Wouldn't that be seen as some premium? I'm probably being too pedantic here but want to get my ducks in a row as I will have to "sell" the multi DMX address, P&T issues to some lighting guys here who've been patching legacy dimmers 1 to1 for over 20 years!

 

[paulears]

I think most of us kind of forgot that movers don’t have to actually move when they’re lit. Being able to grab one, point it, zoom it and colour it makes them very versatile things and how many Fresnels are needed to do the rider common 3 colour wash? My gel consumption is a fraction of what it was yet when somebody wants a pale pink or a light amber it’s a few seconds. I also quite like the look of light from one place. With Fresnels you put perhaps a pair up in the right place and they’d be great but when the villain entered and direction called for colder you’d switch to another pair in less ideal location and see shadows change. LED can also do your fx like lightning in the storm by flicking to full white and back so much better than a filament can. My environment is quite damp here and out of ten left up permanently through the closed winter I lost just one on startup when a power supply failed that’s pretty good for three years. The replacement was less than a few sheets of gel! I bought a few that also offered amber and UV which I thought would be good but haven’t really used those much.

[BobJ]

All points noted and being hacked into a comparison. (Not always easy when your audience is very untechie). And darn, I forgot about the cost of the gels and how many time we needed "Bastard Amber" only to find we'd run out and had wait on an order!

[gyro_gearloose]

Paul, how well do your LEDs fare when creating pastel colours? I know RGBW LEDs are great for saturated colours like you'd use on a rock and roll show, for example, but how well can they create convincing paler colours? I've always thought that the output from multicolour LEDs can be a bit too 'peaky', with a bit of a gap between each individual colour.

[paulears]

Full white then add a touch of red or blue and it works quite well. They do make the strand profiles look a bit yellow but the source 4s match better. Amber seems pretty good too. Our trim height is quite low and straight down you can just see the blending but once you get to 5 or 6m it’s pretty flat and colour constant