viktor92 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Hi all, I am using 4 pieces of JBL PRX815W speakers for outdoor use, but it is not enough loud, I would like to upgrade the system. I believe if I buy at least 2 JBL PRX815XLF subwoofers will help a lot, as the low frequencies will be played on the subwoofer. I think using existing speakers and subwoofers will be "complete system" with 3 way system (high, mid and low). If I would have subwoofers, I believe the way to loop the signal is the same as looping from one JBL PRX815W to other. Please let me know what is your opinion and correct me if I am wrong. Many thanks in advance.Viktor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMitchell Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Hi Viktor A few questions for starters...What is the program material? Live/Pre-recorded playback/genre/s?What physical size area do you need to cover?How many people do you need to cover?Are you ground/stage stacking, or can you get them up high?Are you satisfied with the horizontal dispertion pattern (you'll be getting up to 180deg if you've splayed the pairs correctly), i.e. is the problem simply the system does not play loud enough and low enough?Are there any limits on the available mains/generator power available to you?Whilst you ponder that, my early thoughts are, for anything other than background/very light acoustic music playback to a very small audience outdoors, you'll need something with more welly.Oh, and don't believe the 137dB/1m maximum SPL the manufacturer claims. That will be a calculated theoretical maximum which assumes zero thermal compression. There's more chance of Huddersfield winning the EPL this season that you getting anything close to 137 out of those boxes. Probably 129ish. HTH Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viktor92 Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 Hi Viktor A few questions for starters...What is the program material? Live/Pre-recorded playback/genre/s?What physical size area do you need to cover?How many people do you need to cover?Are you ground/stage stacking, or can you get them up high?Are you satisfied with the horizontal dispertion pattern (you'll be getting up to 180deg if you've splayed the pairs correctly), i.e. is the problem simply the system does not play loud enough and low enough?Are there any limits on the available mains/generator power available to you?Whilst you ponder that, my early thoughts are, for anything other than background/very light acoustic music playback to a very small audience outdoors, you'll need something with more welly.Oh, and don't believe the 137dB/1m maximum SPL the manufacturer claims. That will be a calculated theoretical maximum which assumes zero thermal compression. There's more chance of Huddersfield winning the EPL this season that you getting anything close to 137 out of those boxes. Probably 129ish. HTH Tony Hi Tony, Thanks for your response. What is the program material? Live/Pre-recorded playback/genre/s? - The material will be pre-recorded playlist and a background music. There will be a host while playing games and after finishing with the games, music will continue playing as a background.<li>What physical size area do you need to cover? - Physical area is around 200 - 300 squire meters. Please note that the venue is a water park and there is a lot of noise of the water around.<li>How many people do you need to cover? - I believe will be couple of hundreds.<li>Are you ground/stage stacking, or can you get them up high? - Ground stacking with tripods.<li>Are you satisfied with the horizontal dispertion pattern (you'll be getting up to 180deg if you've splayed the pairs correctly), i.e. is the problem simply the system does not play loud enough and low enough? - I am not really sure. What does it mean horizontal dispertion pattern?<li>Are there any limits on the available mains/generator power available to you? - I need to check, but I am believe there are couple of 13A sockets available. Will I require more power? Many thanks in advance.Viktor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMitchell Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Viktor - see my thoughts in red below your answers.... What is the program material? Live/Pre-recorded playback/genre/s?The material will be pre-recorded playlist and a background music. There will be a host while playing games and after finishing with the games, music will continue playing as a background.Adding subs is not the answer here, it's about maximising coverage in the areas where ambient noise levels are higher and avoiding blind spotsA distributed system of small, full range cabs are the order of the day. What physical size area do you need to cover?Physical area is around 200 - 300 squire meters.What form does that take? That sounds very small, what shape does that take, is it a perfect rectangle? What are the dimensions? (note as an example, just 20m x 10m = 200m2)Please note that the venue is a water park and there is a lot of noise of the water around.My first concern here would be your proposed use of powered speakers - water and electricity don't co-habitate.To satisfy your insurer whilst working in this environment, your risk assessment and method statement will need to be watertight (pardon the pun) and unless you are using IPx4 rated enclosures I cannot see how you'll achieve this. Note the loudspeakers you have suggested are NOT suitably IP rated and you will need to run 230V to each cabinet. How many people do you need to cover? I believe will be couple of hundreds. Are you ground/stage stacking, or can you get them up high?Ground stacking with tripods.Forget ground stacking, use heavy duty tripods with winches to get the boxes up nice and high. Are you satisfied with the horizontal dispertion pattern (you'll be getting up to 180deg if you've splayed the pairs correctly), i.e. is the problem simply the system does not play loud enough and low enough?I am not really sure. What does it mean horizontal dispertion pattern?The JBL box you suggested has a 90degree on axis pattern, therefore a pair will give you 180deg coverage, if you splay them (point them) to maximise this, avoiding overlap and any associated comb filtering effects this may bring. Are there any limits on the available mains/generator power available to you?I need to check, but I am believe there are couple of 13A sockets available. Will I require more power?Unlikely, although there are other considerations before this:- I suggest you deploy a distributed system of UNpowered boxes, where the only cable going to them will be from the amplifier- Locate a control position within a building (or at least a three sided gazebo)- Ensure your speaker cables are run in non-public areas where possible, or sufficiently high to avoid them becoming a trip hazard- Get the speakers high up- Consider waterproof, acoustically transparent jackets for your sepakers- Ensure the mains electrical side is away from the effects of water - splashing/throwing/squirting/whatever else kids do when with their mates around lots of water- Mains cables to minimum IP44 or greater if your RAMS deems necessary- If the supply is on 13A sockets, ensure there is a 30mA RCD, or better still have your own short RCD 'powerbreaker' plug to IEC60309 16A socket at the start of your electrical equipment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viktor92 Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 Viktor - see my thoughts in red below your answers.... What is the program material? Live/Pre-recorded playback/genre/s?The material will be pre-recorded playlist and a background music. There will be a host while playing games and after finishing with the games, music will continue playing as a background.Adding subs is not the answer here, it's about maximising coverage in the areas where ambient noise levels are higher and avoiding blind spotsA distributed system of small, full range cabs are the order of the day.Will you suggest adding more speakers, same as the speakers what I am using it?What physical size area do you need to cover?Physical area is around 200 - 300 squire meters.What form does that take? That sounds very small, what shape does that take, is it a perfect rectangle? What are the dimensions? (note as an example, just 20m x 10m = 200m2)The size is square with dimensions: 50 m. x 4 m. Please note that the venue is a water park and there is a lot of noise of the water around.My first concern here would be your proposed use of powered speakers - water and electricity don't co-habitate.To satisfy your insurer whilst working in this environment, your risk assessment and method statement will need to be watertight (pardon the pun) and unless you are using IPx4 rated enclosures I cannot see how you'll achieve this. Note the loudspeakers you have suggested are NOT suitably IP rated and you will need to run 230V to each cabinet.The area where speaker system setup needs to be done is far away from a water. Would you think installing the power connectors in a junction boxes (IP65) can be a solution? How many people do you need to cover? I believe will be couple of hundreds. Are you ground/stage stacking, or can you get them up high?Ground stacking with tripods.Forget ground stacking, use heavy duty tripods with winches to get the boxes up nice and high. Are you satisfied with the horizontal dispertion pattern (you'll be getting up to 180deg if you've splayed the pairs correctly), i.e. is the problem simply the system does not play loud enough and low enough?I am not really sure. What does it mean horizontal dispertion pattern?The JBL box you suggested has a 90degree on axis pattern, therefore a pair will give you 180deg coverage, if you splay them (point them) to maximise this, avoiding overlap and any associated comb filtering effects this may bring. Are there any limits on the available mains/generator power available to you?I need to check, but I am believe there are couple of 13A sockets available. Will I require more power?Unlikely, although there are other considerations before this:- I suggest you deploy a distributed system of UNpowered boxes, where the only cable going to them will be from the amplifier- Locate a control position within a building (or at least a three sided gazebo)- Ensure your speaker cables are run in non-public areas where possible, or sufficiently high to avoid them becoming a trip hazard- Get the speakers high up- Consider waterproof, acoustically transparent jackets for your sepakers- Ensure the mains electrical side is away from the effects of water - splashing/throwing/squirting/whatever else kids do when with their mates around lots of water- Mains cables to minimum IP44 or greater if your RAMS deems necessary- If the supply is on 13A sockets, ensure there is a 30mA RCD, or better still have your own short RCD 'powerbreaker' plug to IEC60309 16A socket at the start of your electrical equipment Thanks for your answers. Regards,Viktor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMitchell Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Answers to your latest questions are in green below...Viktor - see my thoughts in red below your answers.... What is the program material? Live/Pre-recorded playback/genre/s?The material will be pre-recorded playlist and a background music. There will be a host while playing games and after finishing with the games, music will continue playing as a background.Adding subs is not the answer here, it's about maximising coverage in the areas where ambient noise levels are higher and avoiding blind spotsA distributed system of small, full range cabs are the order of the day.Will you suggest adding more speakers, same as the speakers what I am using it?NO - for the reasons already given regarding unsuitability of deployment of non-IP rated powered equipment in the environment you've described. What physical size area do you need to cover?Physical area is around 200 - 300 squire meters.What form does that take? That sounds very small, what shape does that take, is it a perfect rectangle? What are the dimensions? (note as an example, just 20m x 10m = 200m2)The size is square with dimensions: 50 m. x 4 m. 4m cannot be correct, unless we are talking about just one water slide. Please note that the venue is a water park and there is a lot of noise of the water around.My first concern here would be your proposed use of powered speakers - water and electricity don't co-habitate.To satisfy your insurer whilst working in this environment, your risk assessment and method statement will need to be watertight (pardon the pun) and unless you are using IPx4 rated enclosures I cannot see how you'll achieve this. Note the loudspeakers you have suggested are NOT suitably IP rated and you will need to run 230V to each cabinet.The area where speaker system setup needs to be done is far away from a water.That's probably why it is not loud enough where it needs to be. Use suitable equipment and deploy it in the area/s it needs to be heard, otherwise you'll annoy/deafen people in fringe areas whilst unsuccessfully trying to get it loud enough for those you do want to hear it.Would you think installing the power connectors in a junction boxes (IP65) can be a solution?IPx5 protects against water jets, unless the system will be erected whilst cleaning processes take place, with the limited detail to hand, IPx4 is likely sufficient for power connectors, however you still have IEC60320 connectors on the rear of your powered speakers and an enclosure that is not IP rated How many people do you need to cover? I believe will be couple of hundreds. Are you ground/stage stacking, or can you get them up high?Ground stacking with tripods.Forget ground stacking, use heavy duty tripods with winches to get the boxes up nice and high. Are you satisfied with the horizontal dispertion pattern (you'll be getting up to 180deg if you've splayed the pairs correctly), i.e. is the problem simply the system does not play loud enough and low enough?I am not really sure. What does it mean horizontal dispertion pattern?The JBL box you suggested has a 90degree on axis pattern, therefore a pair will give you 180deg coverage, if you splay them (point them) to maximise this, avoiding overlap and any associated comb filtering effects this may bring. Are there any limits on the available mains/generator power available to you?I need to check, but I am believe there are couple of 13A sockets available. Will I require more power?Unlikely, although there are other considerations before this:- I suggest you deploy a distributed system of UNpowered boxes, where the only cable going to them will be from the amplifier- Locate a control position within a building (or at least a three sided gazebo)- Ensure your speaker cables are run in non-public areas where possible, or sufficiently high to avoid them becoming a trip hazard- Get the speakers high up- Consider waterproof, acoustically transparent jackets for your sepakers- Ensure the mains electrical side is away from the effects of water - splashing/throwing/squirting/whatever else kids do when with their mates around lots of water- Mains cables to minimum IP44 or greater if your RAMS deems necessary- If the supply is on 13A sockets, ensure there is a 30mA RCD, or better still have your own short RCD 'powerbreaker' plug to IEC60309 16A socket at the start of your electrical equipment Thanks for your answers. Regards,Viktor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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