Cheap monitors

[Alec]

So, back in my toilet venue...

 

Current setup is woefully limited, given some of the acts we have in, but we limp along with it. Mons are 4 x "M1520", no idea of brand, but *could* be an earlier version of this. Not stunning, but most visiting engineers with name acts have found them OK enough. Over the years, DJs have managed to destroy the LF drivers in all, which have been replaced with slightly more capable Eminence Deltas.

 

When we do need more monitors, which is increasingly frequent, I use my own RCF ART712s. These sound lovely, but aren't really the best format for the job. Handy sub-rental income, mind.

 

So, looking to scale up, but the budget as ever needs to be kept low. I'd looked at the Studiospares Auditorium 2 215MC, but then also noticed The Box Pro P15. The form factor of the The Box Pro looks good.

 

Looks like the Thomann one is a brand new model, so no reviews. Am I right in remembering that people have found some of the other The Box Pro speakers to be reasonable? If so, then it might be worth a punt on 1 of them to see how it goes.

[i_hate_fisicks]

Thomann's stuff does tend to be pretty good. There are positive reviews to be found on here on the Achat M series. They're a bit more expensive though. I've been impressed with everything I've had from them. Oh except a DI box that didn't work on phantom power, that was gash.

[kurzweil_dude]

What kind of processing/amps are you running currently?

Will you be looking to upgrade that too or just boxes?

 

edit: the Pro Box thing looks like Thommans take on a D&B M4 with is coaxially mounted HF

[Alec]

Looked at the Achat Ms, but they're huge beasts, also with a poor angle for mons.

 

Am I right in thinking that they position the lines The Box -> The Box Pro -> The Box Achat Pro?

 

And yes, the Box Pro P15s do look to be aping the M4s. They key questions are how good they sound, and how well built are they...

 

Our current mons are running off no-name amps with no processing. I suspect this won't change :-( (Oh for the council grants that the local theatre get....)

[kurzweil_dude]

Looked at the Achat Ms, but they're huge beasts, also with a poor angle for mons.

Also looking at the rear, the angles are different so you cant pair them up, higher risk of comb filtering. They look like a multi-purpose box, better off on a speaker stand.

 

Our current mons are running off no-name amps with no processing. I suspect this won't change :-( (Oh for the council grants that the local theatre get....)

Try get some processing sorted. Even if its just for DJ use. Some rudimentary form of limiting would be worth it and probably help save drivers.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tracks_ds_24.htm

Ive used these before, they mimic the XTA stuff well. fairly decent limiting. Two in/four out.. worth a look or you could probably pick up a decent DBX 2231 Grpahic with input limiting fairly cheap 2nd hand these days.

[dickiefunk]

I've used those newer Thomann monitors and didn't like them. They are re-badged Proel WD15a monitors. I preferred their cheaper MA120mkII's. I'm using Alto TS110a's and the TS112a's as wedge monitors and they are working well. A step up would be the new FBT X-Lite range.

Another option is the Wharfdale EVP-X15PM. I know a local heavy rock band that use these as their monitors and they are the loudest onstage band I've heard locally. Their drummer likes to have some of his drums through the monitor with quite a bit of kick!

 

http://www.wharfedalepro.com/product-detail.php?pid=122

[Alec]

Sorry Dickie, they're all active cabs - passive's definitely the way to be in this venue. Regardless of the optimisation in active cabs, the amp racks will live under the stage.

 

When I do use my active cabs, it's always more of a palaver, not to mention the minor risk of punters adjusting things, or knocking out IEC leads.

 

All that said, the The Box wedges do look like the same cab design as the active Proels. Wonder if the drivers are the same? Was tempted to take a punt with one and just handle the cost of the return if it's a disappointment.

[alistermorton]

Locking IEC leads solves one problem. Well, relieves it somewhat, anyway.

[J Pearce]

I'd have to agree that in a small music venue where punters are close to the monitors passive is the way to go. More resilient to spillages, less buttons/knobs/cables to be fiddled with (by both punters and artists who aren't happy with their mix), and easier on cabling.

[mojo filters]

I'd have to agree that in a small music venue where punters are close to the monitors passive is the way to go. More resilient to spillages, less buttons/knobs/cables to be fiddled with (by both punters and artists who aren't happy with their mix), and easier on cabling.

I agree, even if you have those useful but pricey siamese cables, powered boxes in small venues can still be a hassle to work with. My experience is that both the performers and audience members are liable to "fiddle" with any knobs or switches. Also on smaller stages there's more chance of things getting accidentally knocked, just like happens with DIs.

 

Every new powered box that comes out seems to have as many, if not more of these "features" than previous generations! Ideally I'd like to see more options that offer a Meyer style minimal approach of just single sockets for input, through and power.

 

Since this seems unlikely to happen anytime soon, I think a good compromise would be a discreet recessed switch that renders all other external controls off, and sets the input attenuation at a usable line level point.

 

If I was designing a powered speaker that needed all the bells and whistles expected these days, I would put switches for important functions like input mic/line, crossover settings and so forth, all on recessed switches that need a little screwdriver or similar to press them. Plus I would have a further switch to defeat them all and fix the input attenuation level.

 

I really don't see how including such safety measures would increase the cost of building these boxes by much. Plus it would make it easier to sell powered speakers to folks who've had bad experiences with the mischievous roving fingers of musicians and audiences!

 

Admittedly my plans won't fix spillage from precariously positioned pint glasses and other liquid ingress, but that aside - it would eliminate most of the problems that professional users associate with the increasingly popular prosumer and MI grade powered loudspeakers.

[S&L]

re the wharfdale monitor, I have been using them a lot lately - I have a set on loan - they aren't as light as I would like but they seem to work better than the aught to for the price.

for the OP's benefit, they offer a passive version the EVP-X 12M and 15M - the P that's missing denotes powered version I think. finding someone who has them in stock however seems to be another proposition entirely.

[Alec]

I've used those newer Thomann monitors and didn't like them. They are re-badged Proel WD15a monitors.

 

So, having taken a closer look... As before, they're not simply rebadged Proel WD15As as one is active, the other passive. The cabinets do look identical, but with different grilles. Which then makes me wonder if the drivers would be the same...

 

Which did you listen to? The The Box Pros or the Proels? And what was it that you didn't like?

 

Interestingly, another engineer brought in a couple of the Studiospares Auditorium 2 215MC wedges last night, which did a great job and weren't as huge as I feared (on our smallish stage). Nice and low profile, too! Got the chance to A/B them flat with our existing wedges - not that much between them, although our wedges had a little more bottom end - probably as they're larger cabs.

 

The existing wedges are of a similar portrait form factor to the Wharfedale EVP-X15M. They're around 10 or more years old, carpet covered, and the only label on them has "M1520" - I've never succeeded in identifying them. The LF drivers were pretty anonymous, but have all now been replaced.

[dickiefunk]

I listened to the Thomann Pro Mon A12. The reason why I didn't like them was I found the Alto's noticeably clearer with better dispersion. The sound of the A12 lost focus and clarity with small changes in the performers positioning whereas the Alto were more consistent off axis.

[paulears]

Came to this a bit late - but I have some of those Thomann shallow 15" boxes and to be very honest - I really like them. I can, if pushed put my bass through them at respectable volumes and they sound great - in fact, I always carry one just in case IEMs are a problem, and the other wedges I have are Turbosound 2X12"+horns (TFM212) and I like the cheap Thomann box better.

 

It does have a bad points - they are less than a year old and are a real state - the black paint chipped off and they look tatty. The Turbos are heavier, better built and at eight years old look better. Price for price - I will buy more Thomanns. I still like the Turbos, but my bass sounds better through the 15".