mishaanker Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Hi, Just wondering, am I correct in thinking that, much like household wiring it's a really bad idea two have two lights wired into one physical plug? In this instance, two par 64s. I've dismantled them now, but wondering how worried I should be that these have been sitting in the rig ready for use, because it might mean a more in depth search for other bits of questionable practice needs to happen. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmdh Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I share your feeling that it's somehow wrong, but it seems like it doesn't present any special safety issues, as it's logically speaking not much different to using a grelco. The main safety issue I can think of which could arise is the cords not being securely retained in the plug, which could be more difficult with two. There are more likely to be practical issues when it comes to rigging the lanterns and not being able to move them apart, which begs the question of why you would ever do that. All assuming they were wired in parallel of course...<br><br>Curious to hear what other issues others raise!<br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishaanker Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Here's a photo of the first one I took apart. It just feels very wrong to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portytech Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Is it possible that the Par's are lamped with 110v lamps and someone has just wired them, in series, into one plug instead of making an adapter?? From your photo thy appear to be wired in parallel. It would look like someone has made this up to cover a lack of grelcos and not made it right again. As mentioned above it is not best practice to have two cables entering a hole designed for one. Edit: To account for pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishaanker Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Is it possible that the Par's are lamped with 110v lamps and someone has just wired them, in series, into one plug instead of making an adapter?? From your photo thy appear to be wired in parallel. It would look like someone has made this up to cover a lack of grelcos and not made it right again. As mentioned above it is not best practice to have two cables entering a hole designed for one. Edit: To account for pic. Thanks, the weirdest thing is that I've since found a drawer full of grelcos. I think my processor in this job had some odd ideas. He rewired the DMX data stuff too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Coker Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'd be interested to see it's entry in the PAT records....... Well.....moderately interested.. KC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Two or more flexes into a single plug is, or should be, a fail on PAT testing and is very poor practice. Not THAT dangerous though I have seen much worse. Not as bad as a twisted and taped joint, but proper workmanship would require a properly made splitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It also sort of forces you to handle two cans at a time up a ladder (if that's how you get to your rig) which although pars aren't heavy, is not ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishaanker Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 I can't tell you the last time this venue was pat tested, but I've found a sticker marked 2008. I think that says everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Please do take this in the best possible way.... I really think you need to take a step back and look at the position you're currently in and consider either getting some appropriate formal technical training or get yourself down to the local lighting hire co or theatre and find a mentor who can give you a crash course in theatre skills. As you are now "in charge" of a school theatre you are bound by extra compliance requirements and are influencing the expectations and skills of the next generation of theatre-makers - the questions you are asking are incredibly basic technical theatre issues and you run the risk that if you carry on as you are you will be destined to make the same mistakes and dodgy shortcuts as your predecessor did; you have the chance to break the cycle and learn some very useful skills that you will be able to use for the rest of your career, grasp it whilst you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I tend to think you've done the correct thing - you were unhappy with what you saw, and have separated them. That's a very sensible thing to do when you are not quite certain - come down on the side of common sense, and safety. There are so many things that somebody in your position has to deal with. Being able to wire a plug is a huge advantage from many people who do your role, and while on this forum (and others) you get the usual advice of "if you have to ask, then you're not competent" as a response to all sorts, I tend to go with the view that many people ask a question, having a pretty good idea of the correct answer, and are merely seeking confirmation. Oddly, us old fossils frequently advise people to NOT do something, that we then do ourselves, based on our 'experience'. In fact, we know it's bad practice, we know why it's bad, and we also can assess the risk of actually doing it. I often wonder if that the cables I twisted together, and taped 30 years ago are actually still connected somewhere? Many people when facing the PAT - would view a connector designed for one cable to be a fail if used for two, but if the cable clamp was a good design, so it could bite on the outer sheath of both cables, I have to say I'd probably do it with the absolute intention of putting it right tomorrow! Some 16A connectors designed for 2.5mm or even 4mm cable can easily manage two cables, and take the strain off the inner conductors. Testers would probably fail it because the two cables form a figure 8 shape, leaving two voids that would let water run down into the connector - the seal being ruined. So it's been used in a manner that ruins the IP rating - enough for a fail. A 15A connectors could well have the space to feed two cables, and secure them. It has no IP rating to destroy, so if securely made, I personally wouldn't worry about it. After all, when PAR cans first appeared here we ran two cables into 15A plugs in series for a year or two until somebody invented a 15A connector with a spare terminal. I remember just crimping my live and neutral together, and leaving it dangling outside the plug. If you work in a school, then if you are to be as safe as you can be, bearing in mind the kids perhaps being less than gentle with kit, then I'd NOT suffer the bodge. However, in my theatre where systems don't exist and the only people who would ever fiddle with things would be me and my colleagues, then the odd two cables in one plug could well be in use and undisturbed for the last ten years - on the fly rail, away from prying eyes. You really should not bodge anything in schools. Back in the 70s, I worked at a holiday camp with overhead mains to the chalets - all with twist on connectors to join cable lengths. These then were suddenly 'bad', but now, they're back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandall Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The photo shows no cable clamp & one sheath not even reaching the plug. Yes, we all bodge things at times, but this isn't just "poor practice", this is DANGEROUS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishaanker Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Thanks all, and I understand your concern Tom. I'm a new graduate, so I'm erring on the side of caution to check things I "already know". The cables in question were without clamps and one and pulled free from the pins in two places, which struck me as very dodgy, I just wondered how worried I ought to be. We've got the professional inspection team coming to take everything down and do us a proper sort out next Monday, so I just want to be a bit aware of what I might have to pre-warn for, especially as there seem to have been quite a few "just for now" bodges! Slowly but surely, I shall put it all right. At least, that's the plan anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 We've got the professional inspection team coming to take everything down and do us a proper sort out next Monday if this "professional team" is not from a theatre-related company (e.g. if it's the local council's electrical inspection team) then be wary of what they do as they may not be familiar with theatre equipment. You might know more than they do. Bad examples I've experienced include failing 1kw fixtures because they draw too much current, destroying dimmers by using a high voltage insulation test on the circuit, cutting off 15A plugs because they are "old" or do not have sheathed pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistermorton Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Yes, we had an outside PAT testing company fail our 15A plugs for being unsheathed. After a discussion regarding the differences between an industrial scenario and a domestic scenario they "retested" and passed everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.