PAYE + Freelance work

[Thomas1987]

Hi folks,

 

I'm a full time venue production manager, but with the option to do extras now. Aware I need to register to be self employed but on the HMRC website under self assessment registration, it says;

 

"For Self Assessment you also cannot use this service to register if:

 

HMRC have already given you a Unique Taxpayer Reference, please follow the link Becoming self-employed to notify HMRC"

 

Assuming I have one from my main job (PAYE) already, so I need to notify them separately, and can't do self assessment?

 

Suspect a phone call is on the cards but if anyone has any tips, would be appreciated. For earning probably £3k, if that a year extra, seems quite a convoluted process!

[mark_s]

You won't have a UTR without being self-employed, unless you have some unusual tax situation. You don't get one through PAYE.

[azlan]

PAYE uses your NI number and a tax code (which is based on your personal allowance, split between how ever many PAYE jobs you have) , this is different to a UTR, which is used to self-assess.

[timsabre]

Self assessment is not linked to self employment. You can register to self assess tax whether or not you are self employed. At 3k a year you don't need to register as self employed, you can just declare it as untaxed income on your tax return.

[Junior8]

I think Tim is right. However it is possible to be both self-employed and employed ( I was for a couple of years) and at this level of extra income there would be no NI implication on the additional income, the small earnings exemption would kick in and your NI record would be kept up by the PAYE work. You might wish to do this as it would allow you to formally deduct all the exes on the extras, it would only be I think three extra lines on the tax return, and it might prevent any future client being forced to put you on PAYE because you couldn't prove your self-employed status with a UTR. (They are keen that the tax if any is paid by somebody!)

 

 

[sleah]

Self assessment is not linked to self employment. You can register to self assess tax whether or not you are self employed. At 3k a year you don't need to register as self employed, you can just declare it as untaxed income on your tax return.

Which is exactly what I did and they then take the extra TAX from my PAYE by altering the code, meaning I've never had a TAX bill :D (as a seperate bill that is...)

[MarkA74]

If you are self employed, you will be sent a bill twice a year for payment of Class 4 NIC's.

 

I am both employed AND self employed (employed for a single employer in one industry & self employed for my freelance AV work).

 

The UTR number has NOTHING to do with an employed person OR a Self Assessment, as others have said you ONLY get a UTR if you're registered with HMRC as self employed. As for the argument regarding self employed versus employed status you can find other threads on here that discuss that!

 

 

 

[Junior8]

If you are self employed, you will be sent a bill twice a year for payment of Class 4 NIC's.

 

Not quite right. That bill will be for Class 2 and if your earnings as self-emplyed are below a certain level, £5,885, you can gain exemption. Class 4 is a tax on profits from self-emplyement and only kicks in when these reach £7,956.

[paulears]

Phew! There was me wondering why I have never had one. To be honest I see the class 2's going out but never receive any documents regularly.

[Junior8]

If you're on DD you won't get a bill and after this year the law is being changed to allow Class 2 to be collected along with Income Tax once a year. NB Those self-employed on on low incomes maybe just starting out with no additionl PAYE employment should take advice about whether to use the low income exemption as regards their long term NIC record for pensions. It is cheaper to pay the Class 2 now than buy added pension years later.

[Grum]

If you're on DD you won't get a bill and after this year the law is being changed to allow Class 2 to be collected along with Income Tax once a year. NB Those self-employed on on low incomes maybe just starting out with no additionl PAYE employment should take advice about whether to use the low income exemption as regards their long term NIC record for pensions. It is cheaper to pay the Class 2 now than buy added pension years later.

 

That's assuming there'll be a pension by the time you retire or even that you'll live to retirement age, I can't see it being below 75 in 40 years time if it exists at all.

[d_korman]

 

The UTR number has NOTHING to do with an employed person OR a Self Assessment, as others have said you ONLY get a UTR if you're registered with HMRC as self employed.

 

Wrong, I'm afraid. I've never been self employed and I've had a UTR for years. You will get one if you need to submit a tax return,for whatever reason.

[mrboo]

I am PAYE and Self Employed. it best to pay too much tax in your main job then get it refunded on your tax return they tend to pay your money back within 2 weeks of you doing your return online. I have just been given £500 back from the tax in my day job due to buying a laptop for work so my self employed ran at a loss last year due to buying the laptop.

[MarkA74]

The UTR number has NOTHING to do with an employed person OR a Self Assessment, as others have said you ONLY get a UTR if you're registered with HMRC as self employed.

 

Wrong, I'm afraid. I've never been self employed and I've had a UTR for years. You will get one if you need to submit a tax return,for whatever reason.

 

if you're an employee why would you ever need to submit a tax return? You get your tax code (ie:- 1000L like most people) & your employer deducts tax & NI at the appropriate rate :-s

 

 

 

[David Lee]

Many reasons to do a tax return - self employment is only one of them. Investments and property abroad come to mind.