Looking for a new console

[Joe Bleasdale]

Why is M2GO a console and not a wing...?

 

Because you can't install all manner of rubbish on it like a normal PC. It doesn't come installed with all the clutter and cr*p a normal all in one PC comes with and above all, it's a console that was specifically designed to be a console - not a PC sometimes acting as a console.

 

My M2GO (and I think Al's) both have a nice big 22inch glass touchscreen which is more than enough screen space. The MQ60 and 70 and 40 have a built in screen... That's a big pro... But let's face it, those screens are teeny tiny and require a toothpick to touch accurately, or tiny fingers.

 

Hedgehog is nice, probably a little bigger than the MQ Consoles physically and High End definitely did a good job with it.

 

Avos smaller range has also improved a lot recently, and price wise should be able to compete nicely. Unfortunately, the tiger touch II is in a different kind of price range to the likes of M2GO, hedgehog and MQ 60 I believe. If you have budget for that, you could easily get a bigger console from High End, Martin or Chamsys too.

 

I say this every time we discuss consoles... They are very personal and it's important to demo them all and make a good informed decision.

 

Thanks.

[Judge]

Out of the TT2 and MQ60 I reckon the Avo is a better desk,as iit's more complete. Great screen, execute and macro buttons, it will do everything really well. The Chamsys will come into it's own though if you spend any amount of time flying to gigs as it will go cabin baggage. Avo will have to be checked baggage, and I would hate to see my desk be handled by baggage handlers.

Never used a Martin but it looks good.

At most venues you can blag a spare monitor for the night though

[paulears]

I think we've come to the time when there are some really good controls out there that are so similar that we're down only to personal preference, like ford, vauxhall, BMW etc - it takes courage to swap your ford for a vauxhall, and you may or may not be happy with the new one - perhaps missing little features you rather liked. Sometimes, people make a jump upwards, get impressed, but then a bit disillusioned when the extra money bought very little.

 

Joe's actually a good example of this - he was for a long time VERY pro one particular brand, which he was very comfy on, then he kind of changed allegiance. I bet he still likes the old brand, but now he's kind of happy (at least this is what I think from his posts) with alternatives and is less worried.

 

My own experience seems to show that the few really duff controls we had have gone, all the manufacturers upped their game, and all the products being discussed are pretty good.

 

Maybe my next magicq will be because I like the colour?

[top-cat]

 

Because you can't install all manner of rubbish on it like a normal PC. It doesn't come installed with all the clutter and cr*p a normal all in one PC comes with and above all, it's a console that was specifically designed to be a console - not a PC sometimes acting as a console.

 

You can for this on a normal computer too. You just delete all the clutter. It's really clever! The computer Martin buy to put in theirs is perfectly available to anybody else who wants to buy one...you don't have to buy an off the shelf thing from currys full of guff. There are loads of self employed people trading on the web who will sell you a very powerful thing in a small box with no crap on it at all, tailored to exactly what you want. Having it in a separate box has the added bonus that you can run other stuff on it if you want to....

[mark_s]

Regarding the various points on MQ inadequacies, I can't say I've ever had problems with not having a second screen or not enough faders to busk, with an MQ100 and a couple of very involved busked shows. We're getting to the level were personal preference and comfort influence the advice you're receiving more than any technical considerations. They're all proficient consoles, and the only way you'll know which you prefer is to demo them in anger and see which you get along with best.

 

Although my personal opinion is that I wouldn't touch Titan with a 10' barge pole. I've had Titan fall over so many times (and more than once mid-show) that I've lost all faith in it as a stable piece of software. Between that and the inadequacies with the cue stack, it's enough to make me never want to touch it again.

[top-cat]

Regarding the various points on MQ inadequacies, I can't say I've ever had problems with not having a second screen or not enough faders to busk, with an MQ100 and a couple of very involved busked shows.

 

Personally, I can busk the proverbial out of an MQ100. But the MQ60 screen is about the size of a postcard so unless you have action man's fingers it's possible to be not exactly sure which palette you are selecting.

 

But yes, the "I like this, you like that" can go on until the end of time. If one was out and out better than all the others, the others wouldn't exist...

[maxjones2000]

Just my 2p…

 

Having used a Zero88 Orb XF extensively (and receiving training on said desk), I honestly would not touch one with a barge pole.

 

In fairness to Z88, they're trying to make it a very powerful and flexible system - which in all honesty, it is - but it's the HUGE amounts of bugs, glitches and silly little mistakes in the software that make it truly atrocious. We're running the latest software, and yes, they have implemented some pretty impressive features (kind of copying MA2 in some ways), but NONE of them work properly.

 

If anyone wants more details or to discuss, feel free to PM me as I don't want to slag them off on a public forum, but I feel it's important that people see the console from a users POV.

 

On a better note, I'd always always always go for the TT2.. Having used both Titan and MQ, my personal opinion is the Titan is much better. It's just more sleek… Granted the cuestacking is not exactly brilliant (something that MQ excels on), but for busking and 80% of the kind of thing I do, Titan fits the bill better for me.

 

But as everyone else has said, it's personal preference and you ideally need to have a hands-on 'play' with each console in question to make an informed decision http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

[mark_s]

...my personal opinion is the Titan is much better. It's just more sleek…

 

Until one day you select a palette and the desk freezes for five minutes (Pearl Expert, v6). Or one day you reload an old show file having cocked up some minor reprogramming - and the software entirely forgets how to speak DMX (Titan Mobile, v7). Or one of the several other encounters I've had with Titan in a very small number of actual uses. A complete joke is how I'd describe it now, but it certainly wasn't funny at the time. I don't care how polished and clever the interface is - first and foremost I want the desk to talk to me and talk to the rig. At the same time.

 

I've also been led to believe (by our supplier for the first incident mentioned above) that Titan show files aren't backwards compatible, so the solution wasn't as simple as 'please send us another desk with v5 on it'. MQ show files - again I believe - are backwards and forwards compatible obviously minus any features that aren't present in the software you're loading it in. On the off chance that Chamsys do sneak an entirely pants version of MQ through their QA process, you can at least go back to a previous version with little stress.

 

Of course, I'm sure Avo have tidied the software up nicely now. It does worry me though that they managed to get at least one fundamentally flawed version of the software out into the real world though; I can't believe (with a background in software development) that something so blatantly flawed would have ever made it past a robust testing regime.

[peza2010]

I would normally go straight for the avo camp, but I have been impressed with the small offerings from MQ and Martin recently.

 

I am certainly less concerned with needing lots of faders than I use to be. Executes and macros, when you have used them for a while can do so much!

 

for busking on an avo, I tend to use faders mainly for speed of fader shapes, and BPM masters, and a few other bits - everything else can happen with macros and execs.

[Fisher Productions Ltd]

Wounder if I could get some feedback on what latest 24/48 channel lighting desk would you choose?

would you keep with the Jands Event 24/48 or would you go with another type..

 

have two old Jands events 24/48ch desk that we are looking to replace but need a like for like.

 

be great to see what what you think..

[anttech]

Thank you for your comments.

 

Many people mention bugs and issues and failures. how many people have never had a computer crash on them. Microsoft and apple are always sending out updates.

No console/pc/ mac/phone will ever be bug free.

 

What I more wanted to know was peoples views on using them.

What do you like about it,

what would you like it to do better,

What annoys you,

which one would you pick first if offered any.

What dop you hate about the desk.

 

I have the option currently of 3 desk

Chamsys MQ60

Avolites Tiger touch 2

Jands Vista i3

 

for me the Avolites seems to be a ready job with the biggest touch screen and fader count

 

Chamsys is compact but feel that it would need an extra monitor as I feel the one it has is abit small also with my budget I can also get a fader wing

 

Jands i3 needs an extra monitor and has a resticted count on DMX outputs but has a rather nice software although there are from what I can tell less jands users compared to avo and chamsys here in the uk

 

What are peoples comments on the above then.

[timsabre]

What are peoples comments on the above then.

 

I'm not sure what you are hoping for here. It should be obvious from the discussion that different lighting consoles appeal to different people.

You need to find the one that appeals most to you and the only way to do that is by trying them. Hearing a zillion peoples' opinion on the internet is not going to help you make a good decision.

 

It sounds like you really want to go Avo but aren't quite sure, so give them a ring, if you are seriously interested in buying they will probably lend you one for a week to try out.

[DonkiDonki]

My personal system is a MQ pc-wing with a touch screen laptop plus an extra 17" elo touchscreen.This suits me really well for my jobs which are mostly short corporate shows, I find having two good size touch screens works really well with the software and offers plenty of layout options including plenty of onscreen executors and faders.If I was doing music based shows I would definitely add an Extra wing, the additional physical flash buttons and faders being a big bonus for comfortable busking.

As for a console version, personally I like the mq60 but find the touchscreen too small, less of a problem if you carry another touchscreen as standard. Personally I would prefer an mq100 but of course you pay for the benefits.

I also use avo on occasion, with an original tiger touch being the regular beast. I haven't gone too deep with the software as I use my own system for anything complex but it seems at least on a par with the magic q. My only major gripe with the old tiger is the viewing angles and brightness of the screen are awful! From a seated position I find myself having to prop the thing up on rolls of gaffer tape in addition to its own feet just to see what's going on.

Apparently the screen is much improved on the tiger 2 so that should no longer be an issue.

In terms of choice, I think it will really come down to personal preference so do yourself a favour and get hands-on with any system you are considering.

[vinntec]

I had to go right back to the beginning to find out what the original question was. My theatre has just bought a Chamsys MQ60 and the reason we ended up with it was that we first worked out how much money we had, what the minimum specification we needed was at least 10 years into the future, the physical size limits (in our case the operator position is VERY narrow), how portable it needs to be, and the kind of shows we do or might do. The size + price was the key as this limited us to only three that would both fit and afford: Chamsys MQ40, Zero 88 Solution and Stand Palette VL16.

 

In the time it took to even get a quote for the other two desks, and a red herring to look at the NEO which was too wide, James from Chamsys had been around with an MQ60 (using only the facilities of an MQ40) and ran our current rig within 5 minutes of walking through the door. Our space also requires the desk to be standing up and James demonstrated by banging the running MQ60 on the table standing on its end several times to show it was rock solid. He opened it up to show inside. We loved the console but could not live with the tiny screen (and MQ40 has no external monitor or network for remote control). So we looked at a PC to do the programming and it was quickly clear that if we went that way, there was no point having a console at all! So I squeezed our budget and Chamsys their discount so we met on an MQ60 which added external monitor and remote control options with the possibility of using the desk stand alone when preferred. James demo'ed on the Tuesday, I ordered it on the following Friday after negotiations (and waiting for NEO announcement) and collected the console the Friday a week later.

 

Chamsys MQ60 came out tops - despite being the most expensive of the options we had on the table:

 

 

• Best support structure (real 24/7 for emergencies) for anyone with £10 dongle upwards
• Cheap backup option (£10 dongle)
• Full remote control facilities on multiple platforms
• Access to information about all open problems
• Active development of single software platform from MQ40 to Stadium [MQ1000?] console
• Lively forum of users where ideas are taken on board (some of my mutterings are already in Beta test)
• Hardly a bad word about them from anyone on the BlueRoom
• Proximity to our theatre
• Brilliant live demo on our own infrastructure

If we had the final budget at the start we might have looked at other consoles which were originally outside our price range. Chamsys came through because they went the extra mile..

 

 

HOWEVER - that was an analysis of our needs, our space, our potential inventory, our budget, etc etc etc I have since run a full musical at another venue on an MQ60 with conventional + a lot of LED, I am plotting our first show at the Chesil using our one now (which is also tungsten + LED), and am looking forward to welcoming a ballet company for the first time in July knowing the MQ60 will not even have to take its jacket off to meet our needs! Obviously it will do live music, and with multiple playbacks things like variety shows (so perfect for our 10x10 play competition in October which could be plotted one show per playback without using a second page).

 

SECOND CAUTION: I know a lot about Zero 88, Strand, and now Chamsys consoles. I know very little about some of the others you are interested in other than the price and/or size put them out of consideration with my original budget.

 

 

 

[dbuckley]

Although a fine system:

 

1. Cheap backup option (£10 dongle)
   
2. Full remote control facilities on multiple platforms
   

 

Those two options are not compatible. If you use (or perhaps - are unfortunate enough to need to use) #1, you don't get #2.

 

Other than that, a fine analysis of a good selection process. The MQ60 does look a fine desk, and the MQ40 seems... very limited.