Clarification regarding digital wireless

[Poormusician]

Hi guys and gals,

 

I've been approached by my son's school regarding the supply of 6 lapel wireless mics. I am aware to a degree of the licensing requirements and with this in mind, I wondered if you could clarify this. My intention is to have 2 mics on ch 38, 2 on ch 69 and a further 2 on ch 70. Would this legally negate the requirement for a licence and if so, can you see any pitfalls with this solution. Finally, being a typical school, budget is key and they don't want to spend any more than absolutely necessary, so top end Sennheisers are unfortunately out of the question. That said, I don't want to buy rubbish that will break in 2 minutes, so ideally spares will be readily available at reasonable cost. I had in mind the Shure PG188/185 dual lavalier system, but if you have any other suggestions or experience with said system, I'd appreciate any advice.

 

Many thanks,

 

Ian

[Shez]

That won't work. You'll need a licence to use any on ch.38 and you can't use ch.69 at all any more.

You mention digital wireless but only suggest an analogue system. I'd suggest looking at Line6's digital offerings. You'll get six working together licence free in the 2.4GHz band. You'll struggle to get six system licence free with any cheaper analogue system.

[gibbothegreat]

Afraid that doesn't work at all. You can't use Ch69 at all, and yes you will require a license for Ch38.These cost £75/year (or £135 for 2 years) per channel. For conventional radiomics, your best strategy would be to get as much as possible into ch70, which is license free.

 

To achieve that you need to research how many systems can run simultaneously, and the manufacturer's websites are your next port of call to determine that. As an example, Audio-Technica's website includes a 6-way set in ch70 for their 3000 series here, and I believe Sennheiser G3s can do the same. I don't know current prices, but they will be considerably more than the Shures, but of a quality that matches the price difference too. Budget systems are unlikely to achieve 6 license-free channels working together without problems.

[ImagineerTom]

Also lapel mics (or indeed anything other than hand-helds) in a school environment won't last 5 mins as the mic wires need to be treated with care. Unless there's a dedicated technician who will be in control of them at all times they will quickly turn in to an expensive folly - the batteries will be forever going flat, sound quality won't be as good as they're expecting and replacing mics (at £30/time) every few weeks because the cables have been damaged after being stored wrapped around the transmitter pack or from being pulled through clothing means that they will end up costing more to run per year than they cost to buy.

 

Hire in proper ones for big school shows (when you have got a technician and budget) but forget trying to spec anything for normal day-to-day use.

[Poormusician]

Cheers Shez, I had heard things about the line6 gear but was unsure about its reliability, specifically regarding wireless gear. For clarification, I'm a keyboardist by trade, but people seem to assume I'm the fountain of all knowledge when it comes to anything sound or light related, which is blatantly untrue!

 

Thanks again,

 

Ian

 

 

 

 

Hi Gibbo,

 

That's really useful information, I very much appreciate your help.

 

Tom, I hear everything you are saying and think I need to take this one back to the drawing board with some real world experiences (yours)! The school don't have a tech, so your points are extremely valid. Thanks.

[paulears]

Concur with everything said above. I have quite a few Sennheisers - which are probably the most common radio system, but I've also got some Trantecs, which I'm happy with, and some of the Line 6 kit - which again has been very good. The only slight concern I have is that schools and colleges are really heavy wireless users - and although Line 6 don't get interfered with by wireless networks, than can, under some circumstances cause it! The latest systems have channels selected to minimise this, but users report that for trouble free performance, giving them access to all the channels, as in the old system, works best. Network managers will no doubt see intrusion into 'their' network as an intolerable way of working. In practice, we tend to find it a minor annoyance - but others may disagree!

 

I suspect I'd be looking at channel 38 kit, and the school will buy a license as it's a legal necessity (especially if you don't mention ch 70).

[Stuart91]

Wireless systems in the 2.4GHz band can occasionally cause unexpected problems. I got a last minute order for some Sennheiser systems after someone discovered that their Line 6 systems were wiping out the signal for a digital voting system that was a crucial part of the event.

[Poormusician]

Again, thanks for your advice Paul and Stuart, I'll take it onboard. Paul, your experience with the Line 6 gear is most useful as it looks like a worthy candidate to shortlist.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian

[ImagineerTom]

and again just to chip in with the caveat that radio mics aren't suitable for use in schools. Batteries in a radio mic will need changing a couple of times a day (and have to use good quality, expensive/specialist batteries) especially when at the end of a lesson everyone just drops their packs in a box without switching them off properly - try explaining £30-40 per week battery spend to people whose only other experience of batteries are the ones they use in remote controls and which last for months or even years. Sitting on a transmitter pack, pulling the mic thru your clothes to get it off quickly at the end of an assembly, wrapping the cables around the pack when you've finished - all very innocent and natural things that in a school environment would be done with other bits of kit without thought but which will ruin the mics / cables. Mic placement (and corresponding mixing) is also a fine art so very quickly you'd have to switch to using headset/boom mics (which have further complications and costs) otherwise people would quickly stop using them because they don't work as expected.

 

In short, you're going to have to spend many thousands of pounds buying a decent system that can actually support the number of channels you want to use, If it's going to be used regularly (assemblies, drama clubs etc) then it will have a consumables & maintenance cost of getting on for £1000/year quite easily and its day-to-day maintenance and use will require a skillset that no-one in the school will have.

 

If there's not a dedicated technician (and budget) to look after the kit then as I said previously, forget it and just persuade them to hire in kit for the once or twice per year they actually need it. The consumables/maintenance cost alone will be more than 4 weeks hire every year.

[paulears]

We've always suggested the hire route, but over the past few years, I've noticed that schools are getting more and more into complicated stuff, and I cringe when I see a pile of kit delivered that nobody even knows what it's for. I've come to the conclusion that something they can use regularly - for assemblies, presentations, little concerts etc might be actually quite sensible - so their first big show is with familiar kit. The kids know how to put on and adjust a headset, people understand that radio systems need 'working' and that turn on and forget doesn't work. In almost every subject, they're given much more complex kit to use, and familiarity probably does help. So I've kind of changed my old viewpoint.

[ImagineerTom]

Ironically them /wanting/ to use it isn't the problem, the problem is that radio mic kit isn't built to be robust enough to withstand this environment and the operating costs (even if we just talk about batteries) is far in excess of anything else the school is using.

 

I'll bet you there's not any schools actively, long-term using lavalier/headset/tie clip radio mics without a full time technician making sure they're looked after.

[J Pearce]

Though most schools have a reasonable sized IT dept, and looking after a few radio mics shouldn't be beyond someone with those sort of transferable skills. More and more schools are recruiting technicians to support music, drama and dance, albeit often part time only.

[paulears]

Sadly Tom, it's now extremely common - I can think of at least 4 within a few miles of me, plus loads within maybe 20 miles radius, and very few have a technician, just keen teachers. Schools doing musicals with a dozen hired in radios are very common. Radio systems, with headsets from CPC seem to be just another consumable. They get through dozens of headphones, so the same with cheaper headsets isn't that much of a problem. It wasn't like that until perhaps the last four or five years, but as new teachers graduate, who used them when they were at college, they become essentials.

[Bobbsy]

Well, I'm going to be slightly less negative that some of the replies above. I certainly have seen schools that treat gear exactly as described above--but others that, despite the lack of a professional technician, manage to look after gear and make it last. It comes down to the teachers involved and the lead and guidelines they issue. (At the risk of opening a common Blue Room can of worms, the better schools often appoint specific people to take responsibility for looking after thing. BR members hate students introducing themselves as "head of sound at my school" or whatever, but such a process can help.

 

As mentioned above, the vulnerable part of a lavalier or headset system is the mic itself. Even with good treatment, they gradually start to sound bad as sweat gets into the capsule--and the small connectors are fragile and difficult to solder unless you're good at it. However, a work round on this is to forget the expensive name brand mics and use the cheapies you can get from CPC. Even some West End shows have gone this route and now treat the mics themselves as a disposable item.

 

Batteries are a bit of a red herring. Depending on what system you buy, many now run on a single AA battery--and that battery lasts between 8 and 12 hours (i.e. two shows easily). I just bought 40 Duracell AA batteries for Aus $17.95 (about £10) so that works out to about 45p per battery or 22.5p per mic per show. Or, if somebody takes responsibility for doing it, modern rechargeable batteries now work fine.

 

As for licencing, a UK Shared licence for Channel 38 is £75 per year. Depending on the make and model of mic you choose, you can run between 8 and 14 mics on a single channel.

 

For all these costs, the important thing is to submit details to those who administer the budget. They hate getting stung with surprise costs but if they've budgeted to £400 in replacement mics, £75 for a licence and a couple of hundred a year for batteries then it's not such a shock. Yeah, renting is also an option but don't forget you still buy your own batteries with most rentals.

 

Anyhow, you--and the school--need to think hard about all this and know what you're getting into. However, it's NOT impossible.

[MrBoomal]

I've just bought one of these.

 

http://www.shure.com...ms/glxd14-wl185

 

Very pleased. The transmitter is a good solid piece of metal. Comes with a rechargeable Lithium ion battery and is licence free.

 

Sourcing cheaper mics for it would make it a good school choice.

 

I would have thought, whoever was competent enough to engineer six radio mics should have the wherewithal to collect and care for the mics at the end of each session.