ghance Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hi, As an employer, what information do you request from your freelance staff? We have an informal system of asking for invoice details, NI, driving license, any certificates & insurance.. being an informal system its patchy at best. So in an attempt to standardise the procedure I'm putting together a check-list, & H&S / contract sign-off procedure. What do you guys do? What should we be doing? Many thanks GarethH2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itiba Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Why do you collect NI from your self employed sub-contractors? Might be a slight IR35 issue there if HMRC look into it? This is the link to the questions Show Force ask of their production crew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 When I work for QDOS, for quite a few years now, I invoice them for the job, but they deduct NI, but not tax. This system I understand ends this year (April) and as long as what you provide is considered (and described on your invoice) as a service - then it's OK. A number of production companies were instructed to do this, as I understand it, after the ITV V HMRC court case that set the precedent. You are self-employed for tax, but employed for NI - very silly! However, if you work for them as a Production Manager, then no deductions, same with roles like carpenter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itiba Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Oh that? I thought those regs only applied to "entertainers" and not technicians. And as for 'silly'... of course - why would we have simple, easy to understand tax system...what's logic in that ;) (Apologies for o/t!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghance Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Thanks for the Showforce linky.. very helpful.. anyone got any more like that for cross reference?. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itiba Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 What discipline of crew are you looking for? Lighting techs or lifter shifters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The tricky bit, as I understand it is if any part of the job could be considered as performing - Pure technicians shouldn't have the problem, but if you go out on stage, maybe in a festival situation and sound check a guitar, or drums or keys - it would be difficult to not consider this as 'performing' - even though you strum a couple of chords while pressing pedals and checking the thing plays properly. Clearly to use, this isn't real performing at all, but to a tax man, being able to play the guitar or play the drums is a musical skill, which they're using - and I reckon it would possibly be enough of a risk for some production companies to not take the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itiba Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I'm so off topic I've almost veered into a different forum but I've done a bit of research and found the following quote: Entertainer is defined in the Social Security (Categorisation of Earners) Regulations 1978 as a "person employed as an actor, singer or musician or in any similar performing capacity." This includes such professions as dancers, voice-overs and walk–on parts. TV Presenters and news reporters are not regarded as entertainers for the purposes of the legislation. So I would have thought you'd never have been affected... but I guess everyone's situation is different. One of the big issues that hit the film industry a few years ago and I think will hit theatre and events rather soon is that of IR35 and that can be rather painful particular for a crewing company (which is why I mentioned it in the first place) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 The ITV court case was quite interesting. From the information I was sent, the revenue contacted many of the more well known organisations and said - back in 19XX we informed you that people you engaged did not need to pay Class 1 contributions, and you did not need to pay the Employers Contribution. This was incorrect - you now owe ........... They obviously took advice, the sums being substantial, but apparently if the Revenue are wrong, it's still your responsibility! I suspect that they decided not to take chances. The result is that somebody engaged as a Technical ASM doesn't have anything in their contract about performing, but a more typical ASM does - in case they are needed to be a spear carrier, or perhaps be onstage, hidden, passing proper or whatever. In panto, being the back end of a cow as cover would also tip the balance. Would a production company try to predict their likely crossover into NI territory? No, they'd probably just do it automatically - a bit like when they deduct tax from anybody who hasn't given them the appropriate UTR number - take no chances! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itiba Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 a bit like when they deduct tax from anybody who hasn't given them the appropriate UTR number - take no chances! Ahh OK, the grey area that is Stage Management... as purely lighting/electrics I guess that's why I haven't come across it. I did quote that little bit as I'd be more concerned with engaging a mix of sub-contractors and employees doing the same work as I'd have no defence if an IR35 case was taken up against me...but I guess that's a topic for another day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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