X32 INSERT over DCA

[ukdeveloper]

I have a feedback destroyer that I wanna try out. I have an X32 and will be using about 20 radio mics.

 

They are ALL going into a single DCA groups (ALL RADIO MICS) and I was wondering if there was a way of inserting the FB destroyer over that particular DCA group?

 

Im expecting not, so if this is the case can anyone tell me how I would insert the destroyer over a number of channels on the X32? I don't really want to go over the main mix because the band uses quite a heavy distorted guitar which could be interpreted as feedback.

 

This is the first time I'm doing this so please be gentle with the "don't use destroyers.... eq properly" ** laughs out loud **.

 

Carl.

[MarkPAman]

DCA is just a way of controlling the levels a several channel's at once. The signals do not get added together, so there is no common point that you could insert anything into.

 

To do what you want you need a subgroup.

[Shez]

This seems to be an increasingly common misunderstanding. DCAs are just a control mechanism as Mark says. On the X32, you'll need to assign your radio mic channels to a mix bus and remove them from the main LR bus. The aux in and outs are then probably your best bet for setting up inserts.

[ukdeveloper]

This seems to be an increasingly common misunderstanding. DCAs are just a control mechanism as Mark says. On the X32, you'll need to assign your radio mic channels to a mix bus and remove them from the main LR bus. The aux in and outs are then probably your best bet for setting up inserts.

 

By removing them from the main L/R bus wouldn't that defeat the object of having radio mics in the first place? or am I missing something?

 

Carl.

PS thanks for the help by the way/

[paulears]

Probably worth noting that feedback destroyers will endear you to nobody. Sticking them onto a group is even worse. To make the auto tracking filters engage, the system needs to run loudly at the feedback pitch, then the destroyer locks onto it and notches it. You then raise the level again, find the next resonance and do the same. Great if the mics never move -like a lectern mic. The frequencies that radio mic (as in mobile users) feedback at depends on where they are - near which speaker, or problem area. So at best they might allow the user to stand at one place and get some extra volume, but the notion of sending them a mix of varying content is doomed to failure. Used in locked down mode, where certain frequencies are permanently notched can work, but auto needs feedback to work - not good! However, with the graphics built into the X32, you can compensate to a degree for nasty spikes in the room's response.

 

I have never found these things to be any use with radio mics, especially headset radio, and the idea of using the on a group is just 'quaint'.

 

Probably the only things I've bought that I've never ended up using!

[MarkPAman]

 

By removing them from the main L/R bus wouldn't that defeat the object of having radio mics in the first place? or am I missing something?

 

Ah, but you put them back again later!

 

I don't have a X32, so I may use some slightly different terminology here.

 

Remove radios from L+R bus and use a mix bus instead. Send that bus out of the desk into you eq device. Come back into the desk, possibly via an Aux input, and then send that to L+R

 

Give it a go, it will help you with learning about the desk & routing. Then unplug it because Paul's right !

[ukdeveloper]

Probably worth noting that feedback destroyers will endear you to nobody. Sticking them onto a group is even worse. To make the auto tracking filters engage, the system needs to run loudly at the feedback pitch, then the destroyer locks onto it and notches it. You then raise the level again, find the next resonance and do the same. Great if the mics never move -like a lectern mic. The frequencies that radio mic (as in mobile users) feedback at depends on where they are - near which speaker, or problem area. So at best they might allow the user to stand at one place and get some extra volume, but the notion of sending them a mix of varying content is doomed to failure. Used in locked down mode, where certain frequencies are permanently notched can work, but auto needs feedback to work - not good! However, with the graphics built into the X32, you can compensate to a degree for nasty spikes in the room's response.

 

I have never found these things to be any use with radio mics, especially headset radio, and the idea of using the on a group is just 'quaint'.

 

Probably the only things I've bought that I've never ended up using!

 

ok you've sold me! its going back in the tub!

[S&L]

never tried anything like this but there are a few ways of skinning this rabbit

you CAN do the following:

set up a mixbus that takes all mic channels you want and then select that mixbus

then select HOME

select CONFIG tab

and select insert via AUX1 (for instance)

the mix bus would continue to go to LR and you would have a mixbus insert, like would have with an analogue rack BUT

unless you drop the faders on each channel to minimum, they will also send to LR - meaning you get a mix of treated and untreated signals - not what you want I would have thought.

but that is also a dry (no reverb) mix going to LR via the mixbus.

 

We could do with more clarification as to what you are applying the feedback destroyer for. destroyers on front of house are rare but it depends where your mics are in relation to FOH.

an ideal application would be a vocal only monitor mix, where you would proceed as above but direct the mix bus to a separate out for a monitor signal. this would give you a dry signal (which is what you want) and feedback removed from your monitors (which is where I assume you may be goign)

in which case to the above steps

select ROUTING

select OUTPUT 1 XLR to send to monitors

slelect MIXBUS01 (for example) to send that mixbus to those monitors.

 

can you clarify whether you want to apply the destroyer to FOH or monitors?

 

two more eminent replies put up while I was typing.

I find the same as Paul, and even if I didn't it would be wise to listen to what mark and paul say.

 

even with a rock show with static mics - it ends up easier and more useful just to notch out a frequency or two on the monitor with a geq. I do have geq's in my analogue set up that highlight those frequencies feeding back - which are helpful, something I shall miss when I go over to the x32 completely shortly. I'm hoping the next firmware will have some sort of FBQ proxy.

the result of feedback destroyers on voice is not at all pleasing - anyone want to buy a shark I have had in the cupboard for 4 years?

the best thing I ever did when learning how to reduce feedback wasn't use of destroyers or learning what frequency is ringing by ear (I still can't do that reliably)

- the best thing I learned was god mic selection and good monitor/mic positioning.

[top-cat]

This seems to be an increasingly common misunderstanding. DCAs are just a control mechanism as Mark says. On the X32, you'll need to assign your radio mic channels to a mix bus and remove them from the main LR bus. The aux in and outs are then probably your best bet for setting up inserts.

 

SInce the Allen & Heath guide appears to have disappeared, the Wikipedia page will have to do.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-gain_amplifier#In_sound_mixing_consoles

[Shez]

Feedback destroyers are interesting beasties - I tried using them very early on in my career and haven't touched them since. I was trying to explain how to use them with an X32 without going into the whys and wherefores of actually using them. Personally, I wouldn't touch them now and haven't for at least 15 years but each to their own. Learning about speaker placement and polar patterns will be much more useful for you.

[TimmyP1955]

When I got back into live sound, I used feedback destroyers. They are too slow even with a feedback squeal that is pretty loud (and there is no other sound to confuse the thing). You are much better off with an FFT app in your smart phone and the parametric EQ in your X32.