Technical and Production Managers

[paulears]

re-reading this thread has been interesting - nice to see the lecturer responsible popping up.

 

One thing that sours peoples opinon of the worth of this research, is that we do, like Bryson did, spend a fair amount of time helping. How many times have these one shot members ever come back and made their work available to us to see what was done with it, and even what their lecturers thought of our info.

 

I still get the opinion that some students - please note, not all - get us to do their work for them, and don't even have the courtesy to say ta!

 

Final year dissertations on stagecraft related subjects could actually be quite interesting to read - If we have contributed, and been cited in the work, then being allowed to read them should be part of the deal.

 

Maybe we should introduce this into the terms and conditions, along the lines of..

 

Blue Room members may use material from the Blue Room forum as part of educational research on the condition that the research is made available to any Blue Room member on request, or held centrally on an internet server for subsequent download.

 

I bet the uni's and the individual members wouldn't go for it, though.

[blackbird]

Maybe we should introduce this into the terms and conditions, along the lines of..

 

Blue Room members may use material from the Blue Room forum as part of educational research on the condition that the research is made available to any Blue Room member on request, or held centrally on an internet server for subsequent download.

 

I bet the uni's and the individual members wouldn't go for it, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But wouldn't this conflict with the intellectual property rights which most educational establishments impose on work done as part of their courses. I don't know if any would actually ever enforce this, unless someone stood to make money out of some project undertaken whilst studying there, however most places I have studied have some related clause in some T&Cs somewhere.

[paulears]

The rather biased intelectual property rights. As I understand it, the uni claim the rights to work done as part of students study. However, as the student quotes from material drawn from either post searches, or one to one contact with members, then this is acceptable from the uni's viewpoint as long as the origin in cited - as far as I know, the rights for this material remain with the author or 'publisher', which in this case may even be the Blue-Room. So we may not be entitled to the finished product, but they may not be entitled to publish the content - confusing?

 

I still think getting a response back isn't that unreasonable. The ALD get regular contributions from members and non-members for their house magazine. In most cases, the author, if not a member, just gets a copy of the mag in return for the contribution to Lighting Design. Most people just like having their material in print. I don't think we'd get much copy if we just took it, said thanks, and that was that.

[blackbird]

Confusing yes, and I don't disagree in the slightest that a response would be good.

 

I think your original suggestion to add to the T&Cs is a good one, it just needs to be extended to remind potential posters about IP, and the need to ask their institution before they publish it on here, to avoid any backlash at the Blue Room. I would suggest a sub-forum of Training & Quals, to keep what would be an useful repository all together. Perhaps with moderator approval first?

[TaliaS]

From what I am reading it seems to me that you think that we (the students) take your words and use them as their own in their work.

 

This is not true. As the original poster I feel that I should explain exactly what the project was. Our tutor set us a task over the xmas holidays to find out about the roles and responsibilities of Tech/Prod Managers. As part of our research we needed to interview people to ask for their opinions. One of my pages was simply just quotes from people and I did write who said it and where I spoke to them. My last page included my own opinion and concluded what I thought were the roles and responsibilities and whether I agreed or disagreed with some of the people that I had spoken to.

 

I very much appreciate the opinions that Blue Room posters gave me and I find this forum extremely useful in finding information as part of research.

I think you should give the benefit of the doubt to some students that they wouldn't go and copy what you post to them.

[mac.calder]

From what I am reading it seems to me that you think that we (the students) take your words and use them as their own in their work.

 

This is not true. As the original poster I feel that I should explain exactly what the project was. Our tutor set us a task over the xmas holidays to find out about the roles and responsibilities of Tech/Prod Managers. As part of our research we needed to interview people to ask for their opinions. One of my pages was simply just quotes from people and I did write who said it and where I spoke to them. My last page included my own opinion and concluded what I thought were the roles and responsibilities and whether I agreed or disagreed with some of the people that I had spoken to.

 

I very much appreciate the opinions that Blue Room posters gave me and I find this forum extremely useful in finding information as part of research.

I think you should give the benefit of the doubt to some students that they wouldn't go and copy what you post to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What was being said was that any work created for submition or worked upon at an education institution actually becomes intellectual property of said institution, meaning that even should we give you all the answers and you write an essay or whatever, LEGALY, you could be in trouble for publishing your essay without the institution's permission.

 

The fact that you would not just be copy and pasting was made clear much earlier on. The major problem ends up being you have text written up by members of the industry, hours of work, yet in the end, the trouble people have gone to, to look up information etc and write it out is pointless, as we will never be able to see the finished result.

 

The blue-room is a community, and communities only grow when things are put back into it. If everyone only asked questions and never answered them, then the place wou be a damn lonely forum, and if the OP does not comment about whether a solution worked, then future blue-roomers will not be able to benefit from it...

[TaliaS]

I would happily provide the work that I submitted to those who helped me should they ask to see it. PM me if you want me to send it to you.

[MikeR]

Hmmm and borrocks

Student ask question - me (and others) answer question, different student ask same question - we all answer same question again.

No - I wont hire you but I will continue to answer your questions where I can in the hope that one day you may have enough experience to be employable. Until then continue to ask the questions - even the same one if you like, ignore the fact that people will tell you to rtfm and will merge your posts and generally be unhelpful - oops have I been here before and in the same thread as well?

 

 

Hmmmm

Yours

Generally Disillusioned,

[paulears]

Student's don't lift peoples work. This can for some students be a statement, but for others a big question mark. Higher Ed does require the study and hopefully advancement in some cases of other peoples work. When performed properly, this a perfectly satisfactory system, but with the universities now having to cope with students who don't necessarily have the tradional aim - as in getting a good education, some are just scraping together material to get a lower class degree, on the basis that an 'E' at A level is still an A level, so a poor degree is still a BA, or whatever.

 

I found out recently that something I produced was used as part of somebodies degree work, with just some additional material used to top and tail it. Some students take things very seriously and that's to be welcomed. Others don't give a s*it. One of my old students deserved a 1st, based on my knowledge of her ability and attention to detail, another was a complete air head - triviality, lack of effort and total unemployability stand high on her attribute list. I can't believe the results - but, that's life I guess. Different universities, one difficult to get into, the other normally down the bottom of the UCAS list.

 

For those who worked hard, this must be very annoying, and I feel for them. From an employers viewpoint, I'm afraid it's a different story.

[Just Some Bloke]

I studied for (and obtained) a degree at Uni in the dim and distant past. I also lectured in FE for a few years on Technical Theatre courses. I also help students who ask me for advice or information. Three points spring to mind:

 

1) As a lecturer I would always tell students not to stick to just one opinion. If they find something out from a book, then they should try to find the answer in another book to make sure the two answers agree. This is even more important when asking people personally (either face to face or via the internet). The more people agree on an answer, the more likely that answer is to be right (if there is a "right" answer, of course!). So the moral is: the more you ask the question the better.

 

2) A lecturer gets to know their students' writing. If they read something which has not been written by the student, it's quite obvious. Lecturers aren't stupid! In Paul's example of his work being pasted into a student's dissertation with just the topping and tailing done by the student, I'm sure there would have been a difference in writing styles between his language and that of the student. The lecturer would have spotted that and looked for a credit. Not there? Mark the work down. Easy.

 

3) As someone who helps others to understand, I do so freely and am glad to have helped. If I don't get creditted for helping, then frankly I don't really care - I didn't help in order to get the glory of a credit in someone's coursework. I helped in order to help.

 

I salute students who try every available option to find out more. I will always help if I can. If anyone wants to know anything about a topic with which I can help then feel free to ask. If I can answer then I will and you'll be very welcome. Just remember that my answer may not agree with someone else's!

[w/robe]

 

Lecturers aren't stupid!  In Paul's example of his work being pasted into a student's dissertation with just the topping and tailing done by the student, I'm sure there would have been a difference in writing styles between his language and that of the student.  The lecturer would have spotted that and looked for a credit.  Not there?  Mark the work down.  Easy. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Or if you can prove plagiarism they either fail that element (if it is a piece of work that allows them to progress) or fail the whole course (if it is a piece of work that counts towards there degree classification).*

 

Plagiarism is so much easier with the help of the internet, but so is finding it, a few mins of google rather than hours in the library.

 

 

 

*Please note different universities have different rules.

[Christopher_M]

3)  As someone who helps others to understand, I do so freely and am glad to have helped.  If I don't get creditted for helping, then frankly I don't really care - I didn't help in order to get the glory of a credit in someone's coursework.  I helped in order to help.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I applaud your attitude. When all is said and done I believe that is what is important