HOG PC and MIDI help

[SolarisLighting]

So I've got HOG PC and I don't have enough money yet to buy the wings but what I've been trying to do is use a MIDI keyboard to trigger cues or macros or even palette choices. I used to do this with my compulite animator from like 1990 and haven't been able to find anyone whos done this with Hog PC. I've tried the Midimapping thing but that only lets you use midi as GO buttons as far as I can tell. PLEASE HELP, I'm running shows with a mouse and it looks fine but sucks to run.

[timmath]

You can do this with HogPC but I'm not into midi and the hastle that goes with it. Have a look at the X-Keys unit (google for it) it's a programmable usb macro keyboard and works well. I have just commissioned an installation running real and virtual cuestacks from it

 

regards

 

Tim

[dansgold]

Perhaps this thread has already "gone cold", but I'm responding nonetheless.

 

I am in the process of doing exactly what you are talking about: COMPLETELY controlling a Hog PC System from a MIDI Fader Box.

 

The details are somewhat wordy. Suffice it to say that I can get almost anything I want to happen from a Korg MicroKontrol MIDI Controller, Sequencer or Faderbox with the present exception of Fader Control. I have Fader Control about 99% figured out, but require a bit more experimentation with a live system to get it down pat.

 

The final completion of what has been MANY HOURS and DAYS spent experimenting will be somewhat easily generalized to work with almost any brand of MIDI Faderbox or Controller (although I'm keen on getting multiple Behringer BCFs to work together controlling 16 or more faders)

 

I'm reasonably confident that I will be able to completely replace (with few limitations) a playback wing (or even multiple wings) with commonly available MIDI Controller and Fader Boxes.

 

I'll be happy to share this hard-won knowledge. I haven't decided whether I'm going to ask for a fee or just give it up gratis yet.

 

I'll continue adding to this thread as long as interest is apparant.

[gareth]

I'll be happy to share this hard-won knowledge. I haven't decided whether I'm going to ask for a fee or just give it up gratis yet.

What exactly would one get in exchange for this 'fee'?

[dansgold]

What exactly would one get in exchange for this 'fee'?

 

If I went to the trouble of packaging up anything nice enough that I felt it worthy of charging a fee, (eeek ... what tortured syntax!) it would likely include the following:

 

1) A complete, well-written manual including step-by-step instructions for implementing the solutions(s) with various MIDI Controllers and Fader Boxes

 

2) A series of Hog PC "MIDIMAP.TXT" files well-massaged to work well with several commonly available MIDI Controllers or Fader Boxes. The general idea is - of course - that you could virtually replace a playback wing (or perhaps several) with one or more of these controllers.

 

3) A complete explanation (in the manual) of the "hows and whys" of how the solution is created, including quite a bit of material on how Hog PC "speaks MIDI" (much more detailed and clear than the Hog2 or HogPC manual explanations) This would be necessary so that users could customize their own solutions.

 

4) Limited phone support for some period of time ... perhaps something like 30 days.

 

5) Nearly unlimited "update rights" as the solutions are further refined for performance or based upon usse feedback.

 

Otherwise, you'll get a sample "MIDIMAP.TXT" file with some fairly briedf explanations and comments on "how to make it work". THAT would certainly be free.

[Tomo]

Well, the things you can control from MIDI into the Hog (PC or 'real') are:

 

From Notes:

Button presses for all 'real' buttons on the console.

 

From Controllers:

Touchscreen presses in X,Y format - actual event is a Note, X/Y from controllers

Faders - Actual event is a Note, value from controller

Wheels

 

Touchscreen presses are very difficult to simulate from a MIDI keyboard, as they require two bytes of data for each command (X and Y), and are done through Controller commands rather than Note commands.

 

Equally, wheels and faders aren't easy for the same reason.

 

In order to use them you need a MIDI keyboard with continuous controls for the Controller commands, as well the usual keyboard.

[kaareolai]

2) A series of Hog PC "MIDIMAP.TXT" files well-massaged to work well with several commonly available MIDI Controllers or Fader Boxes. The general idea is - of course - that you could virtually replace a playback wing  (or perhaps several) with one or more of these controllers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't find this neccessary. I have made midi control for different midifaders, and I have always left the midimap.txt untouched.

 

I have done most functions, and also given out necessary info both here and on The LightNetwork to do buttons, faders and wheels.

 

If the said faderdesk donot support everything needed, you can always use midiox (with midiyoke as connection tool) to map up missed functions, within reason of course.

 

The buttons are easy,

the faders need to be controlled like this:

Controller:64:<slider_value>;NoteOn:10:<fader_no>

 

The slide_value are an absolute value from 00 to FF (255)

 

Same with wheels, but here the wheels must work with delta values, where the level shows "stepspeed", ie the speed of the movement. -1 is slow backwards, +5 is faster forwards.

 

Remember also that the counting is different by Hog midimap than in other tools. One should be fluent in converting between zero-counting, human counting, and counting in hex... ;-)

 

I have a full setup lying around for mapping through midiox also, as one needs for ex. Behringer BCF2000 (or what it is called)

 

Oh, maybe I should put this out on a webpage, one day... :-)

[dansgold]

It seems that many have done as much or more work on this than I have, which isn't surprising (and quite a bit encouraging)

 

Perhaps someone can clear something up for me.

 

My notion was that a "Fader Control Event" consisted only of a MIDI NOTE ON event, with the velocity of the NOTE ON determining the position of the fader.

 

So, if the MIDIMAP.TXT contains a line which reads "fader:1 = note:11", then NOTE 11 ON with a velocity of 128 would equal telling Fader #1 to to be at 100% (a velocity of 64 equaling 50%, etc.)

 

Is this NOT the case?

[kaareolai]

So, if the MIDIMAP.TXT contains a line which reads "fader:1 = note:11", then NOTE 11 ON with a velocity of 128 would equal telling Fader #1 to to be at 100% (a velocity of 64 equaling 50%, etc.)

 

Is this NOT the case?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

NOT the case, as I see it.

 

The control of faders (and similar for wheels) consists of two midi-commands together, namely "fader_val:<level>;fader:<fadernumber>".

 

IE: Firstly the level, normally a 7bit controller command (controller:65:<level>), and then usually a note command (note:11:<fadernumber>) to tell which fader should have this level.

 

I repeat what I wrote in my previous posting (using zero-counting):

"...the faders need to be controlled like this:

Controller:64:<slider_value>;NoteOn:10:<fader_no>"

 

If your midifader-box cannot do this, you are probably best off with midiox as an intermidiate device ( http://www.midiox.com ). You then do the mapping there. You will also need midiyoke from same webpage.

 

The touchpanel are as I see it controlled by coord_x and coord_y (x and y coordinales) and touchpanel (select which). There are also other means of controlling different functions.

 

Another way is to use a touchscreen. I am using an LG Flatron L1510SF (15"). I have tried it towards Hog2PC with good results. But nowadays I rather use it together with LightFactory or a magical southamptonish product.

[dansgold]

Thanks, that really does clear things up QUITE a bit, and explains why you don't need to use a customized MIDMAP.TXT

[kaareolai]

Thanks, that really does clear things up QUITE a bit, and explains why you don't need to use a customized MIDMAP.TXT

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, the only time I can think of using a customized MIDIMAP.TXT is when you have a non/limited-configurable midi-device, and only want to (rather:are able to) control buttons. Remember also that several buttons in Hog2PC has different behaviour on keypress and keyrelease, so one need to program both NoteOn and NoteOff.

 

In any other situation I would rather either program the midi device (if it is very advanced), or set up mapping in midi-ox. The latter might also usually require an easy configuration of the midi device.

 

Example:

Set up all faders like this on the midi device

Fader1: contr:64

Fader2: contr:65

Fader3: contr:66

and so on...

 

(The range from 64 are just chosen so each midi device fader has an unique data stream value. What it sends out is like this

"contr:<temporary_chosen_unique_fader_number>:<fader_slide_value>")

 

 

Then use midi-ox to map input to Hog2PC like this:

 

Comments start with ';'.

 

; midi-ox mapping .txm file

 

; Voila, here you get back:

; Ctrl:64:<level>;NoteOn:10:<faderno>

; From:

; Ctrl:<temporary_faderno>:<level>

 

; GrandMaster: Ctrl:64 => Ctrl:64+(GM=31)

*,Ctrl,64,64,*,*,Y,0,*,Ctrl,64,64,*,*,

*,Ctrl,64,64,*,*,N,0,*,NoteOn,10,10,31,31

 

; XFader: Ctrl:65 => Ctrl:64+(XF=32)

*,Ctrl,65,65,*,*,Y,0,*,Ctrl,64,64,*,*,

*,Ctrl,65,65,*,*,N,0,*,NoteOn,10,10,32,32

 

; SubMaster1: Ctrl:66 => Ctrl:64+(SM1=0)

*,Ctrl,66,66,*,*,Y,0,*,Ctrl,64,64,*,*,

*,Ctrl,66,66,*,*,N,0,*,NoteOn,10,10,0,0

 

Then more SM2=1 to SM8=7 by incrementing last two digits after NoteOn

besides first two rows of CTRL-numbers.

 

This above solution will/should work on almost any midi fader device. It was set up for Behringer BCF2000. Similar way to do those 3 wheels. Just bear in mind that the levels from midi fader device wheels must be set up as delta output. (The BCF2000 has stopless rotary knobs.)

 

The whole solution require hands-on knowledge of midi-ox and midi-yoke, and RTFM of those besides the midi fader device itself.

 

Also bear in mind that you cannot control more faders than those on main desk, unless you use Hog2PC-version 3.2 build 162, or earlier. Another way to get out of things is to buy midi-faderwing (PigLet) from Visualies.dk.

[dansgold]

Right ... that starts to make things gel for me quite a bit. I'll likely be using Bome's MIDI Translator (as opposed MIDI-OX ) as I like the way it operates and already know it quite well ... but the principles are the same.

 

This is invaluable information, and I certainly offer many thanks for passing it on!

 

:)