Crossover for martin blackline speakers

[plasticpaddy]

Hi

 

My first post so here goes.

 

I am currently using a studiomaster amp to drive 2 martin F10s and 2 martin S12s with S12 switch set to passive.

I want to buy a second power amp and would appreciate any suggestions re a crossover that would enhance system.

I am aware that martin have their own but was hoping to get something cheaper eg behringer CX 2310 or similar.

Any suggestions?

[Funky Dave]

Personally I think I would rather use the passive Crossover in the Martin speakers than a Bellringer CX2310, apparently the Berry digital offering is acceptable but I have never tried it. I have used the CX2310 in the past and it didn't do the sound quality any favours, if anything it made it sound crunchy. I would save a little more money and buy something a bit better, maybe look second hand. We have a system similar to yours, Martin F12 with S18 underneath. We drive it with Martin Audio amps (Powersoft) and a Martin Blackline M3 processor. The processor is around £300 at retail price, if you can get a trade price then it is very affordable. The M3 processor has no control but is already setup for the system we use it with, it sounds very good and having no controls it is perfect for dry hire.Remember that the quality of your audio system is only as good as the weakest part in the signal chain.If you want an analogue, then I would suggest looking for a second hand BSS unit. For example the BSS FDS360 or if you can find a second hand Martin M3 processor then that would be ideal. If you want to buy new then I would spend the money on a Martin M3

[S&L]

I'm kind of stunned by the above post re behringer crossover. I need someone with more knowledge than myself to explain how a behri crossover effects the eq of a signal.

I imagined that like any other crossover, it simply divided the sound at what ever the set point is. I can see how you can make a system sound awful by setting the wrong crossover point and/or setting the gains poorly relative to one another. but I never suspected that a cheap crossover could actually effect eq.

So what's going on here - label bashing, technician snobbery or do cheap active crossovers really effect eq?

Incidentally I should point out I'm not particularly waiving the flag for behri here (though I do have one of their crossovers in service) - I have heard tales of old (10 year or more) behri crossovers that have failed in the past (component failure) but like most behri gear I have heard little current reports of failure.

[peza2010]

I have to agree that cheap crossovers sound worse than expensive ones.

 

Cheap means cheap down the line, so cheaper components etc etc, and this is where you lose quality.

[S&L]

I have to agree that cheap crossovers sound worse than expensive ones.

 

Cheap means cheap down the line, so cheaper components etc etc, and this is where you lose quality.

 

so what is it in the cheap crossover that is colouring the sound? I can see poor efficiency but its the actual business of effecting eq that took me by surprise -

and to keep on track with what the poster was asking for, what is the cheapest reasonable active crossover that someone would recommend - and what makes it different to the behri (and other budget) offerings?

[Funky Dave]

Did I say it effected the EQ? I said it didn't sound nice. I actually said it didn't do the sound any favours. Maybe a bit crunchy. This was about 7 or 8 years ago and there could have been other factors at play like many DJ's using low quality MP3's at that time or redlining the DJ mixer, it was a long time ago but the rest of the system was industry standard touring kit and with the CX2310 it sounded rough. I changed the crossover to a BSS FDS318 and was happy with the sound. I think the available headroom is key to good sound quality. I'm not label bashing, as I said I have heard that the Berringer digital is reasonable and good value for the money. All behringer kit is good value for the money. I was just giving my opinion based on the fact that I have used CX2310 in the past and I was suggesting to spend a little more money and get something that will match the quality of the Martin system he has. A crossover splits the sound using filters, the filters introduce phase shift. Phase shift is how EQ is created. A cheap crossover using cheap components is not going to have as linea response as an expensive crossover designed by people that just do signal processing, like BSS or XTA and using the highest quality components that they can find rather than the cheapest components they can find. Behringer started off making reasonable quality affordable processing units. They were the first company in the audio world to move production to China and when they did that quality control suffered badly. Apparently they have addressed this in the last few years and now the quality is much better. These days the Midas pro series and Klark Teknik Square One range are made in the Behringer factory in china.

 

A quick look on eBay has found a BSS FDS 340 for £220 plus postage from USA or a FDS320 for £164 from the states. They're both vintage units but I would say much better quality than a cheap new one. BSS is pro touring kit designed and built to last forever. They might be three or four times the price as the CX2310 but I think it's worth spending that bit extra. The OP was asking for a suggestion of a crossover that would enhance the system.... If it has to be something around the same price as the CX2310..... Ten years ago I had a DOD crossover, very similar to the one available from Musicians Friend for £52.70, it was a 3way stereo or 4way mono and I was happy with the sound. I used to get compliments on the quality of the sound. I stopped using that unit because it started bleeding through onto other channels. I started using the Behringer unit after that and the quality suffered, then got better when exchanged for a BSS.

[plasticpaddy]

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

I should mention that the speakers are F10/S12 as opposed to F10+/S12+.

Will the M3 work with these as this configuration is not mentioned in the M3 manual?

Would I need to get a specific card?

Is the passive crossover in the S12 really better than a behringer active?

I am obviously working to a tight budget but would consider a second hand M3 if I thought it would work with existing system.

[Funky Dave]

The speakers we have are F12 S18 not F12+ S18+

 

I can't see that making any difference. The passive crossover made by Martin would at least have good quality components. It shouldn't effect the sound badly but passive crossovers do suck up some of your power and of course having two amps and an active crossover will be better. Sometimes I use the passive crossovers on our W8C and I can't hear any difference in quality between the passive crossover and the same speaker and amps with an XTA crossover... The passive crossover in the W8 is only between the hf and hi mid. The XTA is still used as a crossover between hi an low