Sound system for a 500 capacity bar

[silvertone]

Hi. Long-time blue room reader, but first-time poster, checking in here.

 

So, HOW LONG IS A PIECE OF STRING? aka "what sound system should I buy"?

 

I've been asked by a friend to help recommend a sound system for a bar that's due to open later in the year.

 

I know a reasonable amount about live sound in bigger venues but this isn't quite my area of expertise so any help and advise you can give would be very welcome.

 

I don't know the room dimensions but the capacity will be around 500, the room's essentially a rectangle, and the ceiling's about ten feet high.

 

There will be a small dance floor area, but it's very much a bar not a club and this provision is just for the handful of people on a saturday night who can't help but get to their feet during the few biggest tracks of the evening. It certainly doesn't need to be ear-meltingly loud.

 

I'm a big D&B fan and have worked extensively with C-series (C4s, C7s and even in the past C6s) and I've also been very impressed by the tiny E3 / E12 setup, so my first thought is to get some opinions on what they have to offer.

 

Eight E12s or possibly even E8s (with E15x or E12x subs dotted around to match) seem on paper like they'd give adequate volume and coverage. However, I've never used or even heard these, so while I have a huge faith in D&B, I guess I'd like a little reassurance that I'm thinking along broadly sensible lines? (Specifically, if anyone has any thoughts on how the E12 compares to the old C6, which I know well, that would be very interesting. SPL for the C6 is listed as being a fraction higher but power handling is more for the E12 - but I'm guessing they're in the same ball park?) An option would be to chuck in a couple of C7s/C7subs to beef up the dance floor area, but it'll be literally 12 feet square so that would really be overkill I think. Also, if anyone has any thoughts on the new "white range" please speak up! I assume they're slightly cheaper, not requiring the handles or rigging points?

 

The other companies that I'm used to seeing a lot of are L'Accoustics and EAW, but while I see their full-size touring boxes all the time, and like what I hear, I have no idea at all about their smaller offerings, so any pointers here would be welcome. Likewise I guess with companies like Martin, Meyer, F1 - all well known for big boxes but less so for smaller gear, where I live.

 

The other obvious route is the Nexo PS series, but regrettably one of the owners has a bit of a dislike of them so I'm reluctant to even suggest them. (I know.) But any other brands people want to suggest - please go ahead! Obviously the D&B option is a very expensive one, and while the owners have always been pretty good about investing in sound in their other bars and clubs, a part of me is thinking that a bar is not like a theatre where the speakers are heard in an otherwise silent room, nor like a club or gig where the speakers overpower all else - in a bar there will always be a lot of background chatter so perhaps fidelity is slightly less important - i.e. somewhat masked by ambient noise? So if thirty people reply saying "D&B in a bar, what a waste of money, just stick a dozen SX300s in and be done with it!" I'll also welcome those sorts of opinions!

 

Thanks for your time.

[J Pearce]

Not to discourage a well specified bar, but the more common kit lists are Martin Audio, Turbosound, RCF etc.

 

For a bar lots of Martin Audio F8s spread about with a couple of S15s in the corner wouldn't be a bad setup. A Cloud Audio system to distribute control of the inputs and volume, so no one has to fiddle with the amps and it should be good for a few years.

If you have a DJ booth a couple of F12s either side of that for monitoring and DJ deafening wouldn't be a bad idea.

[rlower]

During last Summer I put in a system into our 600 cap bar.

Fairly long and thin room, so need a fair number of boxes.

 

Took out a turbo system, and put in bunch of 12" W Audio boxes with Crown XTI2 amps.

Purchased one to try out along side our older turbo/martin/rcf boxes (located in our other bars), and decided due to the amount required (18 boxes) the price/quality ratio was too much to justify the more known brands.

 

Processing on the amps allowed for tuning, and 6 months down the line its all going well.

I'd recommend a few subs. We didn't buy any, being as for gigs and large club nights we have a Turbo Floodlight system that goes in.

 

Anyway point being, I found that half decent amps, cheaper box's, and a bit of time EQing turned out better than our old system of fewer, named boxes.

A Cloud zone system is a must.

 

I guess overall it depends on the budget.

[dwright2104]

I agree with 'rlower' but its very hard to say without seeing the room, or what the room is going to be like if its not yet built.

 

Im pretty local to you and could certainly help you so check your messages.

 

edit to say upon second reading I read 'live sound in bigger venues' to be biggar the place. ** laughs out loud **

[TonyMitchell]

Eight E12s or possibly even E8s (with E15x or E12x subs dotted around to match) seem on paper like they'd give adequate volume and coverage. However, I've never used or even heard these, so while I have a huge faith in D&B, I guess I'd like a little reassurance that I'm thinking along broadly sensible lines? (Specifically, if anyone has any thoughts on how the E12 compares to the old C6, which I know well, that would be very interesting. SPL for the C6 is listed as being a fraction higher but power handling is more for the E12 - but I'm guessing they're in the same ball park?) An option would be to chuck in a couple of C7s/C7subs to beef up the dance floor area, but it'll be literally 12 feet square so that would really be overkill I think. Also, if anyone has any thoughts on the new "white range" please speak up! I assume they're slightly cheaper, not requiring the handles or rigging points?

 

The E8 is a great little box, really packs a punch - 129dB from a 7kg box with a rotatable 90/50 horn. They are a superb multi purpose box, and notably smaller, lighter and cheaper than their big brother , the E12. Our E8s have tended to become the box of choice, with the E3s not going out much now, except for the smallest of jobs or when there's no E8s left! The fact that non-soundies often look & comment on what's coming out of such a small box is good testament to their outstanding ability. Being able to run 8 x E8s off a single D12 is quite cool too.

 

The E12 is essentially a modernised, lighter C690.

[Matt Riley]

Hi,

 

As long as youre not looking to do live music or club nights in there, then I would echo the advice about a good number of boxes. I would be looking at lots of E3 size or equivalent speakers for the background music, with subs and possibly some slightly larger ones for the dance area. If the dance floor is as small as you say you can probably get away with stuff which is still relatively compact (10/12") .

 

If you want to try L acoustics - their coaxial range is very good - especially now that they have the 5xt added to the lineup, which could be used for the majority of the system in conjunction with an LA4/8 and 8xts on the dance area. I'm still a bit of a fan of the EM acoustics stuff which has lots of options when it comes to this sort of thing.

[Chappie]

I'm still a bit of a fan of the EM Acoustics stuff which has lots of options when it comes to this sort of thing.

I'm with Matt on this one.

[J Pearce]

I have experience with a large bar that was fitted out with a pile of EMS121s and EMS215s, and other than some slightly strange wall mounts that precluded proper aiming it was a very nice setup for background. It was generally augmented for bigger DJ nights.

[mrmidnite]

If you want to spend money on it Funktion One Res2s bi-amped with MC2 E15s and E25s will give you a stunning sound and are capable of serious SPL if need be.

[silvertone]

Thank you all very much for your suggestions, I have a much healthier shortlist now.

 

The Res2 may be a bit physically big for this job...? :s

[azlan]

I'm still a bit of a fan of the EM acoustics stuff which has lots of options when it comes to this sort of thing.

 

I would also recommend EM acoustics, the venue I used to work in had an EM install in the smaller bar (~200 capacity) and it sounded stunning, and they have a good range of boxes, the EMS81's in particular are outstanding for a relatively small mid/hi box and they produce a few compact subs that would fit into a low key installation well

[Paul J Need]

Am I reading this right - a fairly small room for 500 people max which is a bar and not really a club where a few people have a boogie once in a while - suggesting that it's a aplce for people to enjoy a drink, a chat and listen to some good music and to quote the OP - doesn't ned to be thumpingly loud.......... why would you even put 12 SX300s in that size space?, 4-6 ZX1's and perhaps 1-2 subs or even small stuff live Evids (bearing in mind the ceiling is only 10 ft high........... have I lost the plot?

[wmcalin]

Give Ohm uk a call, these guys make some fantastic kit, very good value for money as well. www.ohm.co.uk

 

[Bazz339]

Could I also point out that maybe it is not necessary top cover all the room. Many people like to be able to move to quieter areas for a chat etc.,also it is important to make sure orders etc. can be heard at the bar.

[cedd]

I know the guys from SSE are currently putting a load of Bose's Roommatch range in to quite a few bars. Think they're doing a few of the TigerTiger clubs, so it's a market they're already working in. Might be worth a demo? A friend has recently used some on a museum project (creating a soundscape on a station platform) and was very impressed. Bars and clubs seem to be the market they're designed for.