What system?

[Old enough to know better]

Morning all,

I am a vocalist in a 5 piece band playing everything from country to rock and in between. We currently have what I believe to be a mish mash of a pa/backline set up.

In brief, a spurious 400 watt amp driving 2 15" Laney speakers on stands out front,a large Roland v drum combi for the drummer, 3 monitors and a Bose l1 with tone match also on stage the rhythm guitarist and bass players run their own combi amps miked up and run through the Yamaha mixing desk. There are feeds from the mixing desk both to the Bose and the Laney set ups.

My query is I suppose what to do? Get rid of it all and bring in a replacement system? Keep the amp to run the monitors off and change the rest?

The lead guitarist thinks the Bose system (his) is fantastic and when we have done acoustic duo gigs it has been excellent but it is just not set up for band use, it won't accept the bass or the drums.....brainstorm please....I will also add that what we do is primarily for charity functions and as such we only reallylook to cover our costs in terms of charging so whatever we do would need to be possible by part exchanging what we have and adding a small extra amount of money.

Furthermore I see a lot of recommendations for d&b......which system would we go for if we were to play for upto 400 people and what would it cost as I need to be armed with Facts and figures if I bring this up with the others.Many thanks in anticipation.Andy.

[Matt Riley]

Hi Andy,

 

The most D&B you're likely to be able to get in exchange for your current rig would be one of the 'democracy for listeners' promo T-shirts!

 

In terms of new - the rig we've been talking lots about is the Q7/Qsub rig which would probably be a tiny bit much for your situation. Each box (IIRC) retails for about £3.5k + the cost of the amp which is again at least about £2k and the cost of rigging hardware, so bought new the rig would probably set you back more than 15 grand.

 

There are some reasonable second hand options available - perhaps look at combining this old C6 rig with some suitable subs from the same manufacturer and you could have something reasonable for under £4k

 

There are also lots of other options available in the 'pro audio' price bracket - Nexo PS15/LS1200 rigs, L-acoustics 112P/SB15p, Turbosound, Martin etc etc which will also do a great job.

 

My recommendation would be to look at getting a rig which can do everything from acoustic to metal, with high power 12 inch tops and some decent subs. There are plenty of great sounding modestly priced systems which would be well suited to your needs - for instance RCF Art 712/ 905, Yamaha DXR12/DXS15 which could probably be had new for about £2-3k.

 

And of course, make sure to arrange a proper demo to ensure that it suits you before buying!

 

Matt

[TallMike]

For high power 12" tops, look at the EM Acoustics EMS-121x or the EM Acoustics 122. Sub wise, EMS-115, 118 or 215 subs are great all-rounders.

[Wilflet]

Hi Andy,

The most D&B you're likely to be able to get in exchange for your current rig would be one of the 'democracy for listeners' promo T-shirts!

 

Id like to be the first to offer said tshirt in exchange, size large, its very soft. http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif

 

 

D&B is something we'd recommend if you were running a serious pa company and needing versatility, for a band - especially if your trying to keep your prices low- look at more second tier manufacturers like RCF and HK (theres an actor system on ebay at the minute http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HK-Audio-Actor-PA-System-6-Cabs-/121003608722?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Speakers_Monitor&hash=item1c2c608a92&_uhb=1 )

[TonyMitchell]

Furthermore I see a lot of recommendations for d&b......which system would we go for if we were to play for upto 400 people and what would it cost as I need to be armed with Facts and figures if I bring this up with the others.Many thanks in anticipation.Andy.

 

1 Q7 per side over 2xQSUBs would be perfect for your requirements, although possibly not your pocket. Once you've factored in cables, cases and VAT, you'll get little change from £23k for a 6-box Q-system with D12s. That's only FOH sorted.

 

If you're also looking to replace your current monitoring, you may consider the d&b MAX or MAX12 boxes, these do not require proprietory amplification, so there's a potential saving there. Alternatively, both the E8 and E12 multipurpose boxes make great monitors, however these do require proprietory amplification, but D6s will be fine for this (you'll pay around £1,200 less per amplifier for a D6 compared to a D12).

 

If you have got the budget and this level of investment washes its face for your business, then I'd highly recommend you hire different systems from a few different manufacturers at this grade, to see which is right for you.

[paulears]

Have we not got things out of all proportion?

400 watt amp driving 2 15" Laney speakers on stands

They are a typical 5 piece, with a struggling PA

 

Forgive me, but suggestions like

1 Q7 per side over 2xQSUBs would be perfect for your requirements, although possibly not your pocket. Once you've factored in cables, cases and VAT, you'll get little change from £23k for a 6-box Q-system with D12s. That's only FOH sorted.

are out of all proportion to the kind of systems being up for consideration (unless I've misunderstood the OPs mention of a small extra amount of money.

 

I can't really believe we're suggesting that it's necessary to spend this kind of money - when the link to the Actor system could well be too much?

 

Realistically, they want a system with a bit more power and something at the bottom end. The Actor could be fine in small rooms, or maybe the offerings of plenty of other manufacturers should be looked at at perhaps a more modest level. There are plenty of quite well known names touring with quite modest systems which are reliable and tour well.

 

A band playing for charity functions can't really look at some of the suggestions here - pure overkill - and a total misunderstanding of what the OP has told us.

[TonyMitchell]

I can't really believe we're suggesting that it's necessary to spend this kind of money - and a total misunderstanding of what the OP has told us.

 

 

Paul, I would agree with you. I wasn't suggesting the OP should spend those amounts, hence my comments;

 

perfect for your requirements, although possibly not your pocket.

 

and

 

If you have got the budget and this level of investment washes its face for your business.

 

 

With regards to;

a total misunderstanding of what the OP has told us.

 

I disagree there's any misunderstanding, you'll note it was the OP that mentioned he was considering d&b systems in his opener (as below) ... with Matt and myself coming in with the reality check.

 

 

I see a lot of recommendations for d&b......which system would we go for if we were to play for upto 400 people and what would it cost....Andy.

[paulears]

See your point Tony, but it didn't come across that way - appreciate the factual side - but couldn't quite see the point in view of his potential budget problem, that's all.

P

[brainwave-generator]

Come on Paul, get with the times.

 

It is now a current Blue Room policy that whenever somebody mentions that they want to buy a system, everyone on the forum must stand up and tell them they need a d&B Q Series. Even those who've never heard one, still have to recommend it. It's forum policy.

 

As a moderator you should know that.

[Old enough to know better]

Hi all and thanks thus far,

My reason for asking about d&b is that although I can find lots of places that sell them, none seem to give prices.I half expected that to be because they are so expensive or as some would say high end.

I have seen the HK Actor on eBay as mentioned and think that may suit our pocket and improve our overall sound quality, would it allow the drums and bass guitar to go through it?

I have also seen this set up advertised and wondered if it represents "value for money" and might be worth a look/listen?

P.A.SYSTEM FOR SALE

SMALL,2 WAY STEREO SPEAKER SYSTEM, WOULD SUIT EITHER BAND OR MOBILE DISCO.

SYSTEM COMPRISES OF THE FOLLOWING,

PAIR OF RCF PFR 180 SW 1X18 BASS BINS 350W EACH @ 8OHMS.

PAIR OF OHM RW3 1X15 FULL RANGE CABS(HIGH FREQ. UPGRADED USING EMINANCE 1" COMPRESSION DRIVERS) 300W EACH @ 8 OHMS.

1X DAP AUDIO P 1400 STEREO POWER AMP & 1X STAGELINE MCX2100 2WAY STEREO ELECTRONIC CROSSOVER UNIT, BOTH HOUSED IN A 3U FLIGHT CASE.

1X CLOUD CV1000 STEREO POWER AMP, HOUSED IN A 3U FLIGHT CASE.

ALL INTERCONNECTING SIGNAL AND SPEAKER CABLES.

THIS SYSTEM IS VERY FLEXIBLE, DUE TO THE SIZES OF THE SPEAKERS AND THE POWER AMPS BEING CASED SEPERATELY. SO COULD BE USED AS FULL RIG OR JUST THE TOP CABS AT SMALLER GIGS.

DUE TO THE SIZE/WEIGHT ISSUES WITH THIS SALE, COLLECTION IS RECOMMENDED. DELIVERY COULD BE ARRANGED FOR AN ADDITIONAL FEE.

PAYMENT BY PAYPAL OR CASH ON COLLECTION.

Also I have been offered a Yamaha set up of 2x msr 400 and 2x msr 800 brand new for about £1600 what would that be like?

Thanks again all of you.

Oh and thanks for the offer of the t-shirt but I am disinclined to acquiesce to your offer. ** laughs out loud **.

 

Oh yeah,

Not actually in Wolverhampton but in Stourbridge.

We are playing in Sedgley on Saturday evening at the community centre if you want to come see/hear?

Andy

[Matt Riley]

<snip>

P.A.SYSTEM FOR SALE

SMALL,2 WAY STEREO SPEAKER SYSTEM, WOULD SUIT EITHER BAND OR MOBILE DISCO.

SYSTEM COMPRISES OF THE FOLLOWING,

Hi,

 

I can't see a price on your listing - if it's up for £200-300 then go for it! Ohm are a reputable brand, as are RCF, but the kit you are looking at there is pretty old (with a bit of a DIY upgrade thrown in) and I'm never a fan of mixing your brands. Cloud, DAP and Stageline aren't well regarded amp brands for what you're looking to do, but if it's the right price then go for it.

 

The HK Actor rig would be a very good solution for you. It will likely hold its value very well and provide a really big jump in quality to your present system.

 

I would hold off on the Yammie MSR rig and look into either a (second hand) RCF Art rig, DB Technologies rig or Yamaha DXR rig as they are some way ahead.

[J Pearce]

The HK kit is good stuff, Fohnn and RCF make some kit that is also well regarded by the function band market.

 

You may wish to think about active speakers, one less box in the van and generally active speakers have better protection built in and are often bi-amped giving a better sound quality. EV's active kit in the Zx range is very good for the money and Zx1As over a decent sub would probably be a good improvement on your current rig whilst also being smaller and lighter, though you might want to give it a test ride.

 

The Bose rig is pretty good for acoustic acts, but as you say lacks the grunt for a full band. They can do full band if you follow the design theory and use 1 per musician, with bass and drums having several of the sub-bass modules each. This is very expensive...

[Old enough to know better]

Well, we have made the move......

2 x Yamaha DXR12's & 2 x DXS15's.

We are now looking to upgrade our mixer

In the running......Yamaha MG24/14FXAllen & Heath ZED-16FXAllen & Heath Mixwizard 16:2.

The main thing our sound man wants is a minimum of 4 Aux sends and an ability to group things such as backing vocals.

I know external FX are better but we are happy to go with onboard.

Any thoughts also on the necessity of a final external Eq?

Thanks Guys, Andy.