litemeup Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Hi All, got a quick question. Working at a venue in a week and the ceiling has hanging points. Standard as ever, so I climb up the ladder and pull open the circular plastic flap to find..... not an eyebolt as I expected but an M12 hole.thread!!! So easy enough im thinking I'll just screw an M12 eyebolt into the socket and hang whatever we need. Though im a bit troubled as to how I should secure of the bolt. I cant attach a safety bolt or anything similar, is it safe as is or should I be doing something different.???? All advice welcome. Ta Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianl Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I would expect a venue with points as you describe to have the suitably rated eyebolts to complete the points as well as some certification. Perhaps held by the venue technician or recomened hire company. With a suitably certified eyebolt I wouldnt necesarily expect an adjacent point to use as a safety. If a secondry is required I would shackle an o ring to the point and attach the primary and secondry to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontech Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I've had this twice in london. It's a challenge but the bar that the thread is dropped down from is where I looped a strop over the top and over the truss I was rigging. This gives you a valid safety system from a bar that should be able to take weight if the thread gives out. You either need someone with small wrists or hatch access and a large stick but it works. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdram Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Ref the threaded hole and the using your own eyebolt scenario. Would it be fair to presume this is fine for a straight forward (downward?) deadhang but should you wish to do the angle thing with whatever you want to suspend then you would have to bring a "stack" of precision washers so that you could get the alignment just so for the eyebolt. Sounds quite involved and not as simple as screw in your eyebolt of choice and hang away. We read that it is considered uber important to have the "long" axis of the eyebolt in the exact plane of the hang so to speak. Strikes me the best kit to bring would be one of those swivelling eyebolts with the advantage of always being in the correct plane AND of suitable construction to permit wide angles of suspension, so to speak: http://www.designworldonline.com/swivel-lifting-eye-bolts-from-jw-winco/ As "usual" in these situations there's always a bit more to it than "open flap-find threaded hole-screw in eyebolt-hang stuff-job done". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trussmonkey Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 In my opinion I wouldn't touch it. Yes the engineers would have certified the M12 threaded hole but they sure as hell wont certify anything you put in it. Yes you might be bringing a suitable eyebolt with the correct loading figures but for me an anchor point is an anchor point that is ready to go and NOT a hole in the ceiling/wall that I have to screw my own eye bolts too. In order to have load tested the hole the test engineer would have had to have had an eyebolt in there at some point. You have to ask yourself why did the venue not just leave them in there !! They cost next to nothing!! I would have also though that the test engineer would have certified the anchor point as a whole (inc eyebolt) and not just as a hole ;) To be honest ive never heard of a rigger bringing his/her own eye bolts etc to a job as the venue only has holes in the ceiling. I would tell them to go away and put the eyebolts back in and re test. Oh and im hoping that each anchor point it suitably marked with the its SWL and that the venue has the certs to back this up. Personally if I was faced with this I would be asking for a copy of the certs for my peace of mind. if anything was to happen then you can bet your bottom dollar that you will be the first person the finger will be pointed at. TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdram Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 An excellent point ref the rating of the hole. Could be that not only as tm mentioned but the threads are damaged/corroded into the bargain...and presuming further they really are "proper" M12 threads. One reason why there are no bolts fitted is possibly because of the suspension angle issue and the alignment at which the eyes would be used. Flints do an M12 sized swivel eyebolt: http://www.flints.co.uk/pdfcatalogue/eyebolts_eyenuts_and_chain_products.pdf see pink painted item, Starpoint VRS, top of P2...a snip at just under £40 (plus Vat?). That might explain why it is a case of "bring your own"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trussmonkey Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Buy going down the BYO route you really dont know what you are walking into. Like Ram says it could be that the threads have been corroded/damaged and there could be no way of you telling until its too late. If you definitely have to BYO then get the venue to give you something in writing that confirms the M12 holes are fit for use and are in good working order. You should also defo get a copy of the most recent inspection certs for the anchor points. Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokm Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I would expect a venue with points as you describe to have the suitably rated eyebolts to complete the points as well as some certification. Perhaps held by the venue technician or recomened hire company. Syon Lane hotel (very new build) has this system and when they first opened they had a complete set of they're own eye bolts.. all of which had been bought and tested to a certain spec. The entire system got cert'd for use with those specific eye bolts. However what happened (unsurprisingly) is that bolts got lost as there isn't a venue tech or anyone to administrate that side of things, thus forcing people to supply they're own or have no points. The last time I was there with an event we brought our own VRS eyes (which we charged the client for).. Luckily we'd had the chance to a recce' before hand and it was then at I was presented with a bucket of various brand/spec eyebolts. Some of them may have been original, most were just ones that previous events had left in the roof or around on-site. Give me a nice bit of I-beam anyday.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdram Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Still fascinated by this topic, ** laughs out loud **. I suppose the safest way forward might be to simply have a hole of suitable clearance ID (13/14mm?) in the beam, which does has a certificate. You then do the BYO thing and use a long threaded swiveling eye bolt with the suitably rated nut(s). The beam is rated, the eyebolt/nuts are rated, and you have put two nuts (one as a lock nut) on the thread. There is a fair bit of science in nuts/washers (fasteners) btw and well worth a google if you are so minded/arsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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