Malcolm Gordon Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 I have started using my laptop for sound FX playback in the theatre, initially using Adsono and now graduating to Q-Wizard. The latter has the ability to address multiple soundcards to direct sound to different speakers. Up to now I have used the onboard sound to drive just two speakers. I have a SoundBlaster Audigy 2NX, which is multi-channel but doesn't have the right drivers for separate addressing. I am now contemplating getting an Audiotrak Maya EX7, which has eight outputs, and have wondered whether the card would appear as four stereo devices that could be separately addressed by the Q-Wizard software, enabling me to feed 8 different FX speakers. Audiotrak have said that an ASIO driver (from asio4all) would be needed, as DirectX cannot access the outputs directly. The Q-Wizard people (Cauldron Software) say that an ASIO driver is not relevant as the program uses DirectX. It seems that Sound Cue Systems (SCS) also use DirectX. I don't know what SFX uses but anyway I cannot justify the expense. Has anyone any experience of addressing a multi-channel USB or firewire card in this way? I suppose I could attach extra external cards, but that would be expensive. Taking a desktop machine into the venue is not an option. I would be grateful for any suggestions. Malcolm Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Malcolm If your Hardware has only got ASIO drivers and your software DirectX then you have a problem as it will not work. I use the M-Audio 410 This has both DirectX drivers and ASIO (along with others) I use this with SFX. As windows can only cope with stereo audio this combination gives 5 stereo outputs that can be indervidualy addressed with SFX software (the 8 analouge ones and the spdif out) There is one problem with the 410 in that the outputs are unbalanced but given I generaly use it next to the mixer this is rarely a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Gordon Posted February 26, 2005 Author Share Posted February 26, 2005 James I have to say that I find it hard to distinguish what is possible for particular items of software/hardware from what is a Windows issue. For example, I understand about the stereo audio issue, but is it possible for DirectX (or DirectSound) under Windows XP to access multiple stereo outs on a multi-channel card connected through USB or FireWire? As I mentioned before, Maya say that it can't and ASIO is needed, but would that be a feature of their card or of Windows? Some cards ship only with DirectX support, but other drivers are available. Some versions of the M-Audio 410 spec I have seen mention every driver but DirectX. As far as software is concerned, Q-Wizard say they use DirectX and ASIO is not relevant. The SCS site says DirectX8.1 is required, but seems to imply that multi-addressing is possible as long as PCM wave files are used. The SFX site says DirectX8.1/WDM and doesn't mention any other driver requirement. Are you using DirectX or ASIO with SFX? Is this the Standard or ProAudio product? Both the 410 and SFX are rather expensive for two shows a year. The problem is to find (before purchase!) a more modest combination that will work, without making a costly mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solstace Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Provided you don't need loads of in's/outs, try doing a Google on the KX Project, look at their website (the address escapes me at present) and if their drivers are available for your card, you can download and use those in place of the original drivers supplied by Creative. The project was set up to provide low-latency ASIO drivers to address the multiple in's/outs supported by the EMU chips used on all Creative cards from the Sound Blaster Live series (c. 1997/1998) to present. Other visitors to this post may wish to note that the same EMU chipsets are used in the EMU APS series cards and some others, so the same KX Project drivers may also be compatible with these. While I believe Creative provides ASIO 2.0 drivers for its Audigy products, the DirectX support they provide (in terms of pro-audio uses) may not be so flexible as that provided through use of the KX project drivers. The actual physical in's/out's available for your use will primarily depend on the model of card you are running. DirectX support is provided for the KX drivers, if only in software form, which in terms of latency won't be too much of a problem with modern PC's. This means that for the 16 channels of audio supported by the EMU chip on my Creative SB-Live (Platinum) card, the 16 in's/outs are addressed in stereo pairs, as per the usual limitation set by Windows. It is then down to the recording/playback software as to whether any more than 1 stereo pair can be used at any one time, whether through the use of standard Windows drivers, DirectX drivers or ASIO drivers. By way of background, DirectX was (and still seems to be) aimed primarily at gamers, so I'm not surprised that M-Audio and other pro audio card manufacturers don't mention DirectX compatibility for their products, since most of their cards will be used with software such as Cubase (via the ASIO drivers) or by other apps with their own drivers. ASIO on the other hand seems to have become one of the main driver/interface standards for many of the major recording or sequencing apps. Many audio apps use DirectX as it's a common technology and costs less to licence/program for than ASIO . Hope this helps in some way, C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Gordon Posted February 26, 2005 Author Share Posted February 26, 2005 Chris The kX Project is here. I was directed to it a couple of months ago by a helpful contributor to the Creative Forums. However, the USB external Audigy 2NX is specifically excluded as the chip is different. They are planning to write an ASIO driver, but nothing is available yet. I think I understand your reply to say that DirectX can address multiple channels, in the form of stereo pairs, if the card offers full DirectX support, and whether the software can access multiple channels depends upon how the programmers have implemented their use of DirectX. I imagine it may make a difference if the card is connected through a FireWire or USB interface rather than internal PCI or whatever. So, in the absence of very detailed information from manufacturers and software writers, it seems that any particular combination (bearing in mind that sound FX playback is somewhat specialised) is still a matter of "suck it and see"? Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solstace Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Chris The kX Project is here. I was directed to it a couple of months ago by a helpful contributor to the Creative Forums. However, the USB external Audigy 2NX is specifically excluded as the chip is different. They are planning to write an ASIO driver, but nothing is available yet. I think I understand your reply to say that DirectX can address multiple channels, in the form of stereo pairs, if the card offers full DirectX support, and whether the software can access multiple channels depends upon how the programmers have implemented their use of DirectX. I imagine it may make a difference if the card is connected through a FireWire or USB interface rather than internal PCI or whatever. So, in the absence of very detailed information from manufacturers and software writers, it seems that any particular combination (bearing in mind that sound FX playback is somewhat specialised) is still a matter of "suck it and see"? Malcolm<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oops - forgot about the different chipset in your interface! You should still have DirectX support, even if the interface is connected by Firewire or USB/USB2. Unfortuneately, it does appear to be a case of suck it and see, however I remember that Sonar and other audio sequencers used to rely heavily on DirectX for audio in/out, so I'd be very surprised if there is no such support for any audio interface one is likely to buy brand new these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljstevens Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Hi mate have a look at Echo www.echoaudio.com they produce various soundcards which all use direct-x! You can generally pick them up from ebay as well for quite cheap, or if you really wanna go over board there is Motu they produce probably some of the best external sound cards but they do come at a price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Gordon Posted February 27, 2005 Author Share Posted February 27, 2005 Thank you, all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris999998 Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I haven't used a PC/notebook for SFx playback, I wouldn't either, I'm told it's V embarrassing when they crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 chris, you are entitled to your own opinion. I have had CD players jump, skip and fail to read I have had a Revox break the tape when lining up for a cue, I have had MD loose its TOCI have had computers crash (all during shows) I now defult to using SFX from a computer for all my designs because it allows me to use tools and perform effects that would be impossible without this style of non-linear format. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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