Timing and monitoring challenge

[Doug Siddons]

As yet another monitoring question appears on the forum, just wondering if it would be possible to record or perform a simple 5 part song bass drums 2 guitar and vocal without any of the players hearing the other parts or seeing the other players and it sounding ok?

 

 

So you send a click to each player or (just the count in) he/she has her part in front of them and plays it as its written.

 

 

Maybe we could make this a challenge with no editing allowed?

[smalljoshua]

Speaking as a vocalist, I don't know if that'd be very easy without hearing some form of tune. I don't know about everyone else, but keeping perfect pitch for an entire song with no form of reference is hard!

 

It could be an interesting experiment though. I know of a couple of bands locally who play with minimal monitoring and a click in their ears. They're some of the tightest musically but that could equally be down to the amount of time they spend rehearsing. All of their singers also play some form of instrument however and do still take a small amount of monitoring (some keys, a little bass and guitar) however.

 

Josh

[mervaka]

Separate rooms with headphones could be used to record a live take, or you could play back other takes (or guide tracks) to each performer in turn if you can only record one at a time.

[Seano]

I imagine the vocals wouldn't be very good unless the singers happened to have perfect pitch.

 

The post made me think of

example of what can be done one take at a time. (I guess most of us have already seen it.)

Not quite the same isolation, I'm sure each artist was hearing some of the previous takes. But wow, what a result! :)

[CharlieH]

The post made me think of

example of what can be done one take at a time. (I guess most of us have already seen it.)

I haven't seen that before - very impressive!! It reminds me of Gary Barlow's Jubilee track.

[Shaggy]

I think this really depends on the player. I have worked with a guitarist who has nothing but click and guitar as loud as possible in his in ears in a silent pit. I've also seen drummers used to playing to click in small clubs / festivals where the monitoring often sucks focussing almost entirely on click and not being fussed about monitors. As others have flagged up, most singers would find having nothing to pitch to very hard, however there are good guys out there with perfect pitch who could do this. With reading players, I think it is very possible to create something useable, however it would not be as good as a band who gel together and are playing together.

[paulears]

It works- and the round-robbin play to a track has been a popular trick - Live Aid did it too, didn't they. Musician wise, it works but produces strict tempo results with little feel, because when musicians play together they push and pull the timing which gives it life. Most of these common pass it around tracks then have a studio produced backing with the feel present, and they just drop the featured musicians over the 'flexible' backing. If you listen to the early Mike Oldfield recordings where he played to himself (not with himself, of course) you find the timing very sharp - which does give it a kind of robotic feel. In fact, the result sounds more like a military band trying to play pop - the strict rhythm is so drummed into them that they have trouble swinging.

[Doug Siddons]

It works- and the round-robbin play to a track has been a popular trick - Live Aid did it too, didn't they. Musician wise, it works but produces strict tempo results with little feel, because when musicians play together they push and pull the timing which gives it life. Most of these common pass it around tracks then have a studio produced backing with the feel present, and they just drop the featured musicians over the 'flexible' backing. If you listen to the early Mike Oldfield recordings where he played to himself (not with himself, of course) you find the timing very sharp - which does give it a kind of robotic feel. In fact, the result sounds more like a military band trying to play pop - the strict rhythm is so drummed into them that they have trouble swinging.

 

Point is Paul that the participants don't hear the track just either count it or hear a click and then hit their mark or miss it . I know this is technically possible, just wondered if it would be useable and whether anyone would be prepared to do it and let others hear the results.

[chelgrian]

The post made me think of

example of what can be done one take at a time. (I guess most of us have already seen it.)

I haven't seen that before - very impressive!! It reminds me of Gary Barlow's Jubilee track.

 

I take that and raise you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Whitacre#Virtual_Choir

[paulears]

Point is Paul that the participants don't hear the track just either count it or hear a click and then hit their mark or miss it . I know this is technically possible, just wondered if it would be useable and whether anyone would be prepared to do it and let others hear the results.

 

Course it works Doug - but to make it sound good you will need to spend a while editing it.

 

If you want me to do a short piece, I probably could, but I'm not sure of the point. With just a click and the dots, you can just play it, but without the others, it's just mechanical. You could play around the rhythm, but you'd have no idea if the other players were pulling and pushing at the same place.

 

In your original question - the weak link would be vocal, because even if you give them the starting note, by the end they'd be out of tune. Easy on drums, keys and absolute pitch instruments, not so easy with those that aren't - I'm thinking strings, fretless instruments and even single reeds. I have been learning pedal steel guitar, and am finding accurate pitch is the most difficult thing - playing to a click would be dreadful for me.