Shure SLX4 Ch38 radio mics

[Pete Alcock]

When I cashed in my Shure Ch69 handhelds last year (mostly the low cost but excellent UT series), I spent the cash on four new Ch38 SLX4 handheld kits - 3 SM58 and 1 Beta87C.

 

Anyway, I've used them a few times and noticed one of the 58s was breaking up a bit at a range of 20 or so metres. On Sunday I took the 87, and again with the receiver at FOH (25m from the action), ocaasionally I'd get the same fizzy breakup. We were outdoors, no other radio mics in use, antennae at 45deg either way - should have been rock solid.

 

I just wondered if anyone else has had similar issues with the SLX series on Ch38? The reason I ask here and not Shure directly is that I suspect I won't get an honest answer to "Are your new SLX4 kits actually a bit rubbish and not as good as the £299 old UTs?". Real user experience is more valuable to me at the moment before I take it up with the manufacturer.

 

Thanks,

 

PA

[james.sealey]

Pete

 

We sold on around 20 SLX handheld/lapel kits last year to make way for all new CH38 SLX's. We have had some issues with signal/stability, but in particular with a '4 way' rack we have using Shures Antenna DA and 1/2 wave antennas.

 

Not really got to the bottom of it to be honest, sometimes the 4 way rack performs better with 1/4 wave antennas on, sometimes 1/2. We are coming to the conclusion that CH38 just isn't as stable as CH69, and on one job in the center of London had intermittent interference across the whole band which affected every single mic.

 

The previous CH69 kit was as solid as a rock.

 

Don't know if anyone else has had any issues they may have dismissed at the time?

 

James

[cedd]

Not a Shure user, but I'll echo the sentiments on channel 38 not being quite as well behaved as channel 69. I've seen drop outs and interference far more in channel 38 than 69, and that's using a few different set ups (Trantec and Senheiser) in lots of different environments, so it's not isolated to one manufacturer or rack.

 

As a beltpack user, I suspected it was to do with the longer aerials and contact with/near the performer's skin, or just the longer aerial being susceptible to bending when worn. I can naver re-creat the circumstances later in testing. Seems your issues have been with handheld mics though, so maybe I'm a bit off the mark in my theories.

A recent change in my usual set up (partly as a result of this, partly now I've got reliable remote receiver monitoring) has been to move my receivers to the stage instead of Front Of House, but it's not exactly a solurion is it!

[ThePaGuy]

OK so just to inform everyone Ch 38 is currently used by other people and is not fully available for radio mic usage depending on your location,

go to JFMG.co.uk for a guide to ch 38 usage in your area,for those of you within 30 miles of jodrell bank dont bother :o)

[TonyMitchell]

Have been using channel 38 for almost a year now and have found it fantastic.

 

Using a Trantec S5 8-way rack with twin rack mounted antennae. We did buy the Trantec paddle antennae with the kit, as had always needed external antennae for outdoor jobs using Senn G1-500 kit, but as yet have not needed to use paddles with the Trantec, even when the rack is inside a van, and users are 70+ metres away.

[ThePaGuy]

Glad to hear its working fine for you,but as I said it depends on where you are right now and will change as the digital tv switch over continues

[paulears]

I must admit that I had always thought the radio astronomy safe zone was because they were using very sensitive receivers to listen, and it didn't occur to me that they transmit too!

EDIT - I can't find any information to suggest land based transmission had ever taken place, it seems from what I can find, the intention was to keep ch 38 as RF free as possible.

[cedd]

That was my understanding too Paul. There also used to be an area around Bristol Filton Airport that wasn't usable because of their older radar system. Now that was a powerful transmitter! It was replaced through funding from Ofcom a fair while ago as I recall.

 

Whilst I think we're all pretty aware of the location specific nature of ch38 for the time being ThePaGuy, I don't in this instance think it was the cause of the problem. The areas where I've seen the problems have been A-ok on JFMG's list of locations.

Far more likely I think is the presence of off-channel RF causing receiver desense. Sadly my spectrum analyser is the size of a small bungalow and I never seem to have the time to do any fault finding when issues occur, so I'm yet to prove my theory. I've had much greater success removing all amplification from my antenna system and moving the receivers nearer to the stage. This was never necessary with ch69 but I have a feeling I'm now amplifying some stuff that's actually proving rather unhelpful to my receivers.

 

We also discovered that pre-DSO, the local tv mast was transmiting channel 5 (the name of the tv channel - nothing to do with the Rf channel), on an adjacent channel to ch38. I forget which one, but with pilot tone off and a little bit of work we were succesfully able to receive the audio carrier. Not a problem now of course, but it shocked us as we thought our spectrum "neighbourhood" was pretty quiet - not so it seemed.

[Rob_Beech]

Quite frankly, they're not very good.

 

I can't get more than 4 working together, 5 if I'm really lucky. I can't get more than 10-15m range without SERIOUS RF issues. I can't get more than a particularly feeble fart from a newborn otter into one without it overloading and distorting. I can't do up the battery compartment without them cracking (actually I can but a fair few people can't). Just generally, they're the concept of disappointment in a plastic case.

 

I'm told I must simply be doing something wrong. Perhaps I don't know about wireless technology, I only own 70 channels.

 

UHF-R has let me down in 38 twice this year so far too.

 

Glad I stuck to Sennheiser, really really am. My G3's out perform the UHF-R let alone SLX, and my 5000's..... well. What can I say?

[Ben Lawrance]

Rob,

 

What problems have UHF-R given you?

 

We've been using it for around a year now and not had a single blip (touch wood) so just want to be aware of what to look out for.

 

 

Cheers

Ben

[Rob_Beech]

Just sudden RF drop outs. Things can be fine at say about 40-50m (on paddles of course) and then without warning. NO RF, for a couple of seconds or less and then. almost full again. Happened a couple of times, one of them with about 15000 people listening to the bloke announcing stuff.

 

It was a situation with a paddle pointing out front and an omni on the stage as the guy did some work out front and then some work on stage.

 

Last year we were not told about the out front bit until we were on site so we ran an old G1 handheld on its standard antenna and had NO issues at all 45-50m away. Yet UHF-R was a nightmare. Admitedly it's a small percentage of shows where it's been a problem, they're out frequently, but, damn annoying it is.

 

 

I've found that "stuff" in the way seems to affect ch38 more.

[chelgrian]

Glad I stuck to Sennheiser, really really am. My G3's out perform the UHF-R let alone SLX, and my 5000's..... well. What can I say?

 

I've been using 12 or more G3s in channel 39/40. Touch wood I've had no weird issues yet, distances of about 20m with directional antenna. The only issues we've had so far have been traced to intermodulation due to next door using our co-ordinated frequencies illegally.

[splodge360]

had similar problem with Shure 38s, so use trantec rack and ready system now, seems a little stronger/ more seperation, but have had problems with pillars blocking rf, and handhelds being turned on near reciever ariels blocking out distant beltpacks.

 

still not as good as the sadly missed traded in 69 stuff

 

Ive dug out my old trantec vhf set up as back up/ spare/ breakout room set on conferences etc, batteries last an age, doesnt interfere with any of the mics on main show rig whilst sound checking, get to eves drop on the local taxi rank bookings etc.