HK Audio PR:O 210 Subwoofers

[Rob_P]

Does anyone have any experience of the new HK Audio PR:O 210 subwoofer - a 2 x 10" unit?

 

I have been running a pair of HK Audio PR:O 12" passive tops for a couple of years, powered by a QSC RMX2450 amp, and have been very pleased with them. Being a 12" box they are a little light on bass, but until now I have dealt with this with a bit of gentle EQing. However, I am now looking to add some subwoofers to go with them since I am starting to need to run them at higher powers for bigger gigs.

 

I do have a single 18" "The Box" sub, which definately falls into the "cheep and cheerful" category. This is powered by a second RMX2450, via a DBX223 crossover. This speaker gets used very rarely, mainly because I don't have easy access to a van, and it won't fit in my car! When I have used it it is fairly obvious that this is the week point of the system.

 

The obvious match for the tops are the 18" PR:O units, but they won't fit in the car either. However, HK have fairly recently added a smaller 2x10" subwoofer to their range. I am guessing that these are designed to be used with the smaller 8" or 10" tops, but having looked at the specs the max SPL level is only 3dB lower than the 18" version, and the sensitivity is the same. Clearly it won't go quite as low as the bigger driver, but I am not exactly running drum and bass gigs, so I am not that worried. Mostly I do local theatre and some burlesque events. I can always hire in a bigger rig (and a van!) if needed for one-offs. Our German friends currently have them listed at just under £400 each.

 

Any thoughts people? Am I wasting my time with the smaller units, or should I just bite the bullet and buy the 18" ones and a Transit?

 

I am also open to suggestions of alternative units.

 

Thanks.

[S&L]

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will ask this question and answer your query more elequantly than I but in the meantime - context is everything - what are you planning on using the HK set-up for?

[Rob_P]

Sorry for the slow reply - it's been a busy few days.

 

I mostly use the rig in my local small theatre (about 190 seats) and burlesque events (100 - 140 people seated at tables) . The theatre work includes some musicals, and the burlesque girls like it loud! I would also like the option of doing some band gigs, although this isn't something that I do often at present. I am generally trying to expand my experience and scope, so was looking to expand the system slowly as I go along.

 

I am not chasing huge sub-bass levels, but on a gig a few weeks ago I noticed the clip lights just starting to flash on the high points of the finale. Clearly tweaking the output compression sort this, but I was obviously starting to reach the limits of the system volume.

 

My main concern with the 2x10" subs is that, especially when used with a passive crossover, is that I could end up lugging around lots of heavy (and expensive) kit, without actually making a worthwhile difference to the sound.

 

Rob

[S&L]

My instinct would be for a pair of 15" subs to match your pair of 12" tops on the grounds that (without having tried them) the 2 x 10" subs are likely to be punchy more than bottom end and you may need some bottom end particularly for bands. 18" subs tend to be the sort of things your feel more than hear (thumping disco bass). I haven't heard the HK 2 x 10 but feel that they will be more middl-ey and that your 12" speakers are already covering the middle. two 12 inch tops and two 15 inch subs should nicely cover a 100 capacity dependant on shape of room obviously.

apart from trailing (or hiring to trial) that's as far as my thinking takes me.

[nothingatall666]

How big is your car?

 

 

Personally - I always get a little frustrated at the lack of presence with the 18's, as with most other 18" drivers - They only start to sound right when they're being pushed slightly!

 

The 210's - Though I haven't heard them at their fullest, they definitely sounded more present under lower volumes. but if you have reached the limits of your current system I have feeling that these will not give you the scale of upgrade you are after.

 

 

As S&L has said - Your greatest saviour may be the 15", I have only heard these as part of the ACTOR system - which is a lovely system, but again - Needs to be pushed to bring out its true colours!

 

My choice would probably be the 15" cabinets.. they will give you a good sub/low balance and can be scaled up again to create a 'ESYS EPX' system (When you get a van)

 

Of course it all depends what fits in your car. - Definitely try out the different size subs before you buy!

[Rob_P]

Hmm. This clearly needs more thinking about!

 

I will discount the 210 subs since Nothingatall's concerns seem to mirror mine. I will keep looking for some 15" subs to add punchiness to the system, but will try to hire in a pair of the HK 18" subs for a gig to see how they sound, and play with the EQ to see if I can get the punch that I am after without rattling the windows too much.

 

My everyday car is a Saab 9-3, but unfortunately it is the saloon version. It will happily take a decent number of flight cases and ancillaries cases in the boot, and a pair of 12" tops on the back seat, but 18" subs just won't fit through any of the doors! Of course in retrospect I should have bought the estate version. 15" subs seem to available in a slightly smaller packages than 18s, but I suppose that there are physical limits on the size due to the laws of physics for LF sound. The sensible compromise is probably a trailer.

 

I am still open to suggestions for 15" (passive) subs, but that is probably a subject for a different forum post.

 

Thanks to everyone for their help.

 

Rob

[S&L]

re subs - HK do both active and passive 15" subs and I see no reason why that wouldn't give you a cracking system - I really do think that unless you watn and absolutely need to rattle windows and stomach diafragms then 18" are not for you.

re transport - I did the maths recently, having started with a car and supplemented with occasional van hire, the hired more often then looked logically at as a vehicle as an extension of my PA inventory - sold the car and bought a grand voyager (bigger than an escort van when seats are removed and 2/3 the size of a swb transit.) 2 years older and 200 quid more than my old car, plus double the insurance and 1.5 times the fuel consumption. for a part time sound engineer it works. really - consider your transport part of your rig and you look at your vehicle choice differently!

[Rob_P]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

I have tracked down some bargin (I hope) HK Audio 15" PR115 subs on eBay, which seem to have been discontinued a while ago. Once I can pick them up I will see if Ihave got a bargin or not.

 

The only other 15" passive subs that they seem to sell are the Actor (Sub B) ones, and the manual for them comes with dire warnings about using them with anything but the corresponding Actor (Sub A) active subs. The alternative would have been a pair of the active subs from the Elias/EPX range, but I am not keen to move to active speakers when I already have the amps. Maybe one day I will sell off what I have and start again with the full EPX rig.

 

The new ones still won't fit in the car, so I will have to take S&L's advice and think about changing it. Until then I will just have to ask nicely borrow my sister's old discovery occasionally!

 

Rob

[Rob_P]

Sorry to dig up an old post.

 

I have been very pleased with the PR115 subs so far. However I do not have any technical documentation for them, and, as they are discontinued, HK do not seem to have anything listed on their website.

 

So, just out of interest really, does anyone on this forum happen to have a spec sheet for them? Particularly looking for sensitivity, max SPLs, etc.

 

Thanks!