another magicq question

[DonkiDonki]

This one is aimed at the magicq experts...

 

If I run a show on magicq pc with the DMX outputs from a pcwing is it possible to have a second laptop with a live backup automatically following any updates on the main?

If so, supposing there a problem developed on the master pc could the pcwing be swapped over to the backup pc live?

 

What would the wing do with its outputs if just disconnected via usb. (I will trial this the next time I get a chance)

[Grum]

Yes and No.

 

You can have a second system running as a back up and you can set it to copy the programming. You can also set it so that if the master system crashes the back up takes over. I've done this for several shows after my console became unstable after a pint landed on it with complete success.

 

However, if you're using the wing as the DMX output then you will lose DMX when you swap the USB from one console to the other. One way around this would be to use an Artnet to DMX converter as your DMX output and keep all three devices (the two desks and the Artnet box) on the same network.

[DonkiDonki]

Thanks for the info Grum, an artnet box of some form is on my wishlist but wont be around for a while. I can cope with a brief freeze in DMX output whilst the wing is swapped between pc's, the bit that makes it really useful is the backup machine updating as I program the main. (most of my events are one or two day hits with little programming time)

 

I have been having a play tonight with mixed success. The wing swaps between to pc's running magicq ok, the DMX output freezes whilst disconected and picks up again from the new source quite quickly.

 

I haven't got too far with networking the two laptops with magicq yet though. I have them on a dedicated router which uses ip2.0.0.1 subnet 255.0.0.0, the first pc is 2.0.0.101 and the second is 2.0.0.136.

(machines have stock windows 7 64bit home premium firewall and microsoft security essentials - all off for this test)

I can ping both ways from the desktop with no problems and I can ping the router and 2nd laptop from the magicq on the first pc; but I cant ping anything from magicq on the second pc.

 

I havent tried to get any further with the magicq side as it is getting late, I will try again tomorrow.

 

.........

 

 

Actually I couldn't resist a bit more of a fiddle.

Despite the ping only working one way, both "consoles" see each other and I just had a quick play with one as a remote; fun!

 

 

That's it for now.

[DonkiDonki]

Right, a bit of time to play today.

 

In View System/View Status/Net Consoles both magic pcs see the other one as Console 1 and does not list itself. shouldn't they see both and lable them console 1 & 2?

 

Well, not sure if the "Console" bit is listing correctly or not but the cross-console functions are all working a treat.

 

 

I can manually get the "backup" machine to grab the show from the "master" with my current setup, however the "live" backup requires both consoles to have a Chamsys interface of some description; which is fair enough.

 

That has just swung my decision to shell out for the 4-port artnet widget-me-bob, seamless backups here we come!

 

 

 

My interest in the whole "live backup" thing came from a recent show where I was using the clients lighting desk (widely used and respected brand- I won't name & shame) which had a show file corrupt 30mins before audience was due in. On top of that, when attempting to re-load the file, (after resetting the console) the thing froze solid and refused to respond.

Luckily I had my laptop & a DMX dongle to hand and had an extremely frantic time trying to patch and reprogram as much of the show as possible; mostly in Blind as the audience had their starters!

 

The upside is the client can now see the value of a backup desk and is happy if I can provide the solution.

 

 

[gyro_gearloose]

Swapping cables by actually unplugging them manually? Thats so last century :) Now I haven't actually tried this but KVM switches are available which have USB ports for mouse and keyboard. You should be able to use one of these to swap your wing, and therefore your DMX output, from one PC to the other with minimal downtime. If it works then it will be a lot cheaper than most Artnet nodes.

[DonkiDonki]

Swapping cables by actually unplugging them manually? Thats so last century :) Now I haven't actually tried this but KVM switches are available which have USB ports for mouse and keyboard. You should be able to use one of these to swap your wing, and therefore your DMX output, from one PC to the other with minimal downtime. If it works then it will be a lot cheaper than most Artnet nodes.

 

I had considered that, and will still need one to switch my external touchscreen but it doesn't help with enabling the remote features on a second instance of magicqhttp://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif

 

I have been close to buying an artnet-DMX unit anyway, was considering one of the oem 8way units that look extremely good value, until I was informed the chamsys one did indeed count as an interface; enabling the full features so it's a no-brainer really. I wasn't so keen on the old 3way unit but the new 4way with a separate input looks about right. It's a little pricy but the good stuff always is. (and the deal isn't too shabbyhttp://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

 

A new branch to the topic; ethernet switches.

 

 

It looks like I will need one to sit between the two magicq-pc machines and the artnet box. I am currently using a d-link 635 (cable broadband) wifi router just as a router. It works ok between the two pc's for magicq although it does mess with my browser and stop it from connecting to the internet via my broadband wifi. (I think I need to disable wan on the router but not sure how)

 

This is ok if it works with the artnet box but I suspect I may be needing to get an ethernet switch of some description. These are alien to me and vary hugely in price. The chamsys version looks perfect but is way too expensive at this point so I am looking for advice on the best value alternative.

Would one of the non-managed 4port 10/100 type switches be suitable?

such as?

http://www.netgear.c...ches/FS105.aspx

 

 

or if I stretch the budget for poe?

http://www.netgear.c...es/GS108PE.aspx

 

Can anyone give me some guidance?

[gyro_gearloose]

I had considered that, and will still need one to switch my external touchscreen but it doesn't help with enabling the remote features on a second instance of magicq

So if I'm understanding this correctly, you can have two PCs running MagicQ and can swap the wing between them and the wing works perfectly on both machines but the remote feature will only be unlocked on whichever PC starts with the wing connected? If you have to switch mid-show which do you need the remote feature? Can't you just wait for a suitable point and restart the software on the backup while the wing is attached to it? This will unlock the extra features on the backup.

[DonkiDonki]

The software constantly checks the wing status so no tricking it by that method I'm afraid.

Both machines need remote access features at the same time for the programming of the master to automatically update on the backup.

 

And lets not forget that such a live tracking backup (plus multi console programming among others) is a very powerful feature.Being able to use it with such low ££££ outlay is pretty amazing in my opinion.

[DonkiDonki]

An update on my progress for anyone who might be interested...

 

 

I went for a Netgear FS108P which is an unmanaged 8 port switch, 4 with POE which is handy for powering both the Chamsys 4 port artnet unit and a Netgear wireless access point; saving a few of those unsightly power bricks.

 

I had a nightmare getting my laptop configured properly with the switch and 4port unit; mainly due my lack of networking experience. When I finally got my head around it (they key was to set the 4port's ip as the default gateway on my ethernet adaptor.)

 

I have also picked up a 17" ELO touch monitor to replace my 10", this works perfectly alongside my laptop's built-in touchscreen.

 

Everything is working perfectly so far, I only have one laptop to hand at the moment as my other one is on a truck heading to Prague at the moment, as soon as I get everything in one place I will checkout the remote & backup features again.

 

The only downside so far is I now need a bigger flightcase!

 

I had considered that, and will still need one to switch my external touchscreen but it doesn't help with enabling the remote features on a second instance of magicq

So if I'm understanding this correctly, you can have two PCs running MagicQ and can swap the wing between them and the wing works perfectly on both machines but the remote feature will only be unlocked on whichever PC starts with the wing connected? If you have to switch mid-show which do you need the remote feature? Can't you just wait for a suitable point and restart the software on the backup while the wing is attached to it? This will unlock the extra features on the backup.

 

To clarify a bit, I am not after the remote features for rigger's remote type duty; (which I already use both by Android app or a second laptop) that only needs the main "console" out of demo mode. The feature needs to be enabled on both consoles at the same time for the automatic programming transfer to work. Meaning no need to manually transfer backups of the show; which for events with heavy programming on tight schedules is a real boon.

 

Now that I have the artnet box for DMX output; if one console fails the other takes over immediately with no interruption to the show. Which is nice.

[Keeper of the Keys]

Just FYI, if you are only trying to be on the same network with a bunch of PCs/devices and not trying to reach other networks you don't need a gateway, the gateway is there only to make it possible to reach other networks.

 

What probably happened is that you setup a network with a wrong mask and therefor some of the other devices on the network were considered on a different network by your computer.

 

For ArtNet use 10.x.x.x with a mask of 255.0.0.0 (unless you have devices that work on 2.x.x.x/255.0.0.0, but you should avoid 2.x.x.x since it is not a private network, it is a "normal" Internet routable network)

[DonkiDonki]

I've been having similar advice on the lightnetwork forum too. This is my first attempt at using artnet gear and I have zero experience with networking so all advice is extremely welcome.

 

From what I can make out, the typical ip addresses chosen for artnet use is fine for an exclusive network but a bad choice for networks which see the internet or share a physical connection with other networks.

 

As for the gateway bit, after extensive googling it seems windows 7 networking is a bit buggy (huge surprise...) and it defaults a lot of new networks to unidentified public status which is pretty useless. setting a gateway which leads it to a device seems to enable it to identify the network and allow you to configure it.

Apparently the same kit on XP does not suffer this is way.

[Keeper of the Keys]

So some quick basics (for IPv4):

The IP address is basically a 32bit number, that we represent as x.x.x.x where every x represents one byte [8 bits] and can take a value between 0-255.

 

The Netmask is basically a value that says which part of the 32b address that the computer has identifies the network and which part identifies a machine on the network, this is important because a machine on the network is directly reachable (without the intervention of a router/bridge) whereas to reach a device that is not on the same network as me I need some device that knows how to communicate between 2 or more different networks and knows where they live (router), that device 'lives' at the gateway address, I can also have multiple gateways to different networks but that is beyond the scope here.

 

So if I give my computer the address 10.23.55.66 with a mask of 255.0.0.0 I told it that the network it is on is 10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 (16M addresses) and any device whose address is 10.x.x.x can be reached directly.

 

More later, gotta run.

[DonkiDonki]

Thanks for the info.

[Wol]

Have a read through http://wiki.magicq.co.uk/w/MagicQ_Network_Setup for a bit more info. It's more generic networking stuff there, but is relevant to MagicQ.

[DonkiDonki]

Thanks for the link.