Fingers Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hi all. A bit of back story for you. I'm currently in my final year of school preparing for an upcoming production of Return to the Forbidden Planet. I am operating the sound for the actual production, but as the most experienced theatre engineer in the school I've become the technical manager for the production. This is something that I have much experience with! I was instructed to get quotes for the required hire kit for the production, but when the full quote came through from my friend (and a blue room regular) the MD (not even the director!) threw a wobbler! He is also the theatre manager and thus controls all the finances. The equipment for hire is from a very good friend of mine, I know it all works and have used it all before, and now it's got to the point where we are hiring lots of single items from lot of different people. Something which I am not comfortable with. The quote that I received was not ridiculous and was most reasonable with no negotiation taking place and now I find myself in a situation whereby the MD is now questioning every decision that I make and is now intervening in the technical aspects of the production, something which he knows nothing about. This got me thinking. How to people in the industry work around this? I understand that a lot of the industry is based on working with people and not working against them, but this kind of situation musty have happened before. How do people preparing for a show run deal with this kind of thing? This situation is not exclusive to sound, schools or theatre so any opinions or experiences are welcome! With thanks in advance Elliott P.S. Mods, I appreciate that this might not be in the appropriate forum; feel free to move as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lee Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Ok, lets get this out of the way quickly. If you are a student you cannot really be the technical manager. You may have taken on the role that a technical manager may have but you cannot have any of the responsibilities. You can walk away at any point. I was instructed to get quotes for the required hire kit for the production, but when the full quote came through from my friend (and a blue room regular) the MD (not even the director!) threw a wobbler! He is also the theatre manager and thus controls all the finances. Who instructed you or were you just asked to get a quote. You only got one? Normal practice would be three quotes. You admit to having a close friendship with the person who suppplied the quote? There would be queries about that, especially with money from a school being used. It doesn't matter that he is only the MD, if he is also the theatre director and in charge of finance he has every right to question a single quote from a friend of yours. This got me thinking. How to people in the industry work around this? I understand that a lot of the industry is based on working with people and not working against them, but this kind of situation musty have happened before. How do people preparing for a show run deal with this kind of thing? This situation is not exclusive to sound, schools or theatre so any opinions or experiences are welcome! Usually down to diplomatic negotiation. You put in what you want/ feel you need for a production. Get a few quotes from various independant suppliers and approach finance who will then try to slash the costs. You have to be able to argue (not shout or storm out) the case for the extra equipment in terms of cost and needs of the production. Somewhere along the line a compromise will be met unless you are lucky enough to have an open budget (which is rare to non existant.) I have a feeling you have read too much into your role as Technical manager (possibly led on by your tutors) and that by only going and getting one quote from a known friend you have probably shown your in-experience. You have now gone and ramped up any tension now by posting on an open forum that your MD might be reading if he has any interest in backstage techncal theatre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think you have to expect this. Even as a teacher, this can cause severe problems - and it happened to me. I got the student doing these things to get three quotes for the kit we needed, and I selected the cheapest option, which also was going to come from a 'friend' of the college and was amazed to be hauled up in front of the new Director of Finance and told this was not the way it worked. Any quotation received from people we knew could well have had the real budget mentioned, could even have had the price of the other quotes revealed and been, in effect guided to ensure it got the best reception. This simply cannot be done - I was told. Totally new to me, never seen the rule before, but the Bribery Act is now in mangy firms terms and conditions. Quotes and tenders are always subject to scrutiny and the person who selects the students educational work as real quotes, (i.e. me) is not in a position to be able to assert they are real and within the rules and even the law. It's very common to stick this stuff into school and college work, but when it comes down to real public money being spent - then it's dangerous. That all said - it's luckily not your problem, it is between your teacher and this other person. Let them do battle and one will win. It's nothing to do with you. You have the paperwork which may get you grades, but as everyone always bangs on about on here - when you are at school, whatever you think - it's not real, it's a simulation because with real job titles comes proper responsibility, and if you make a really HUGE mistake, all that can happen is you get a ticking off and a poor grade - that's it! You are allowed to make a mistake, your teacher is NOT. If there is a fight to be had, stay out of the way, and simply direct the interfering person to your teacher. You can always say "Sorry but Mrs X or whoever told me to do this, could you talk to her about it please. Then you stop doing what your doing and wait. I would like to say that it IS ok to be given the role of Supreme being, or whatever they have decided to call you - the qualifications indicate students must have a specific role, but this doesn't mean you have any real power - so don't get carried away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 In a professional environment, the answer is CONTRACTS. The contract between the production manager and the promoter will agree who books the suppliers. The PM will usually demand that he gets the ultimate decision of which company to book, and that nobody else may adjust that call. He will be given a budget, and will choose his own suppliers, and the contract will say words to the effect of "as long as the budget is not exceeded, the PM can choose the suppliers and the equipment". There is a lot more to choosing a supplier than what kit they have in stock, this is why it's essential for PMs to choose, not accountants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Gentlemen Thanks for your swift replies! Perhaps I don't make myself clear. My school employs a full time theatre technician and so my role as a 'technical manager' is nothing official. As the director calls me it, it has kind of stuck! As such I have no official responsibilities and I am working under her instruction. As the school are aware of my work as a sound engineer, I was approached to receive quotes from people I knew, the school having already investigated other options. What really annoyed me about the situation is that the theatre manager (who yes does hold control of the finances and has it in his interest to cut costs) has no technical knowledge of the matter. He thought that we could run an infinite of radio miss on one frequency! (I digress) I am aware of the show budget but after being shown a quote (in a production meeting) he is now questioning my ability, not my professionalism! David, you are indeed right that hiring from a close friend could cause problems and I can only say that the hire would be/ is being carried out as a hire from any other company. Of course there is an element of personal involvement but I have been the victim of a summons to the finance director! It is not an underhand deal or something that would bring the Bribery Act into play. Paul. I agree, it's a school, but I like to think that I would approach this show with the same level of professionalism that I would a public show and so to me, I do not think of this as something that is not real. I am also not doing this to get grades as it will have no bearing on them. I was asked by my school to be the sound operator and; at a later stage to become more heavily involved, again, due to my own work out of school. I am only a third party in this. As stated, I am working under someone who IS employed by the school to do this kind of thing. My original question was only as simple as 'how do people in the industry work with directors and finances?' something that was answered in David's final paragraph! Thanks Elliott P.S. My school is an independent school, please of not think that I am robbing the British Taxpayer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Moderation: At the request of the OP, I've closed this topic - for fairly obvious reasons.PaulMods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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