RCF tt system problems

[jason.san]

Hi,

 

I wonder if anyone could help - I'm really vexed with a problem with a brand new rig I've bought and I'm completely pulling my hair out with it!

 

ok

 

Just bought RCF TT22a x 2 and TTS18A x 1

 

really nice sounding system and I'm already a big fan.

 

I've only used them about 5 times so far and I've encountered a few problems.

 

Hard to describe what's been going on, but here goes...

 

First gig was the tops only and found I had to drive them pretty hard to get a decent volume out of them. Having said that, the compressor was only flashing on occasionally - mostly on peak bass and snare drum notes - I certainly wasn't hammering them.

 

next few gigs ok - had bassbin in as well and found that I didn't have to push them so hard to get a good loud sound out of them.

 

So...this weekend....

Friday used just the tops in a small venue (not anywhere near the compressor coming in) and when I was singing a bigish note they both cut out completely! It wasn't until I stopped the note that the sound came back on. No further problems throughout the night at all and I was a lot louder at the end of the night.

 

Last night a big venue, full rig inc bin in and had to crank it up pretty loud - having said that the compressor wasn't on on every song and even when it was it was only on the peak notes again. Only problem we had was when my other half (girl singer) was singing Adele's someone like you (just backing track of piano and vocals) and the rig kind of cut out to half power and then came back on of it's own accord. We were a lot lounder throughout the rest of the night and it handled rock, dance etc. and was fine.

 

Tonight it went completely awful though. Smaller venue and reduced volume, but the full rig in. Not once did I get anywhere near the compressor coming on and we had problems all night. Cutting out, distortion, reducing volume, phasing etc. etc. Same setlist and set up as the previous night, but simply terrible.

 

My set up is:-

 

Roland VM3100 pro desk

driverack PA

laptop running backing tracks

 

there's just two of us but between us we play:-

male and female vox

guitar

acoustic guitar

tenor and alto sax

 

I've done the obvious things in trying to eliminate the problem - changed leads around, taken the driverack out of the system altogether, swapped the outputs on the desk.

Tonight I was convinced that one side of the desk was faulty as it seemed to be mostly confined to one speaker so I daisy-chained the rig out of the other output channel - top to top to bin and I still had problems - both speakers were bad but the one which was worse before was even worse the second time around.

 

Tomorrow I'll try my O1V desk with a few different songs to see if I can get to the bottom of it, but in the meantime if anyone's got any advice I'd be most grateful.

 

I'm considering sending the tops back and upgrading to the TT25s instead, but surely for the venues I'm playing the tt22s are sufficient? These are top of the range and very expensive speakers!!!

 

thanks

Jason

[wmcalin]

Hi, might be worth hiring a hall to work through the issue.

Use a few well mixed CD's to see if you can repeat the problem.

 

Do you compress vocals, are the backing tracks well mixed ?

As it sounds like there seems to be some peaks in the mix and you might be simply pushing the system too hard.

[fatfrog]

Hi There,

 

I've got a RCF TT+ Rig myself and I reckon your problem is the Driverack pa which you don't need!

 

Take left feed of Desk into left input of sub & link up to top via the left x-over output!

 

Take right feed of Desk into right input of sub & link up to top via the right x-over output!

 

Set all gain knobs on the rig to unity gain - 3 O'Clock

 

This should fix the problem - You don't need the driverack pa as the rig has its own limiting etc built into the amplifier modules

 

Best of luck,

Alan

[Doug Siddons]

My guess would be the drive rack settings too

[Biro]

I am going to third the driverack.. its highly likely that that is your problem. The system can be set up without it.

[jason.san]

thanks for the assistance.

 

however, it's not the driverack - I know that the rig can be set up without the driverack, in fact I already am using the inbuilt crossovers rather than the ones on the driverack. I was only using it as a digital eq.

 

The last two gigs the driverack hasn't even been in the signal chain - I took it out and I've continued to have problems.

 

Like I said I'm going to try a different desk tonight and see how that goes - I just hate intermittent faults! I've also spoken to RCF directly and they're stumped at the moment as to what it is. They are very helpful however and I'm pretty confident that between me trying to eliminate various possibilities and their assistance I'll sort it out.

 

 

For those of you who have tt systems how do you find them? Are they loud enough for your uses? How often do you go into the compressor? Have you ever driven them so loud that the red light is coming on? What happens then? and various other questions.....!

[John M]

thanks for the assistance.

 

however, it's not the driverack - I know that the rig can be set up without the driverack, in fact I already am using the inbuilt crossovers rather than the ones on the driverack. I was only using it as a digital eq.

 

The last two gigs the driverack hasn't even been in the signal chain - I took it out and I've continued to have problems.

 

Like I said I'm going to try a different desk tonight and see how that goes - I just hate intermittent faults! I've also spoken to RCF directly and they're stumped at the moment as to what it is. They are very helpful however and I'm pretty confident that between me trying to eliminate various possibilities and their assistance I'll sort it out.

 

 

For those of you who have tt systems how do you find them? Are they loud enough for your uses? How often do you go into the compressor? Have you ever driven them so loud that the red light is coming on? What happens then? and various other questions.....!

 

 

I doubt its the desk. Either cables or else the amplifiers - Are they powered speakers - do they both go out at the same time - if they both go out at the same time then maybe something odd going on with your plug board or maybe a loose wire on the mains plug. I have JBL Eon 515's and one was doing exactly the same cutting out - usually at a loudish part but not very loud - I even turned on the bass cut switch on the back of the speaker and still kept randomly cutting out.- They use pesky class D amplifiers which are very complicated to fix and most service centres just change them. The good news is that they are not too expensive - of course if you are still in warranty just take them back. I am starting to doubt the reliability of Class D - they are light and cheap but I have had loads of trouble with them. It seems they cant take continuous loud passages. I would have expected speakers to blow but now it seems the amplifiers go instead

 

Actually - re-reading your first message - you mention the whole system goes down and back up so really does point to the mixer.

[Biro]

In that case try different versions of everything.. Desk to start with if its the WHOLE PA.

 

 

 

We stock the RCF TT+ stuff and have had one Class D amp go in them, (TT25A) and it was replaced by us by just buying a new amp for it. You have not mentioned in your original fault finding that you have taken out the console from the equation.

[fatfrog]

Swap out the desk first!

 

Other issue could be your cabling - Is it all proper XLR providing balanced connection between desk and speakers!

[bassfreak]

I have the tt25a's and the tt18's. Never had a problem with them whilst I have been doing the sound. Could it be that you have a compressor/limiter on the desk outputs, possibly set wrong or faulty desk. I used to have a ZED 420 but just switched to an 01v and it has made a difference in a good way. I use comps on main vocals bass guitar and drums, but nothing on the main outs.

 

In the past we had a strange problem with them where they were switching on and off intermittently but Greg sorted them for me. Ever since they've been fine and not ever experienced the problems that you list.

 

As has previously stated, trying a different desk through PA to see how that pans out, and some different cables too.

[jason.san]

Hi again,

 

well I did change the desk to an O1V and I tested it extensively both in the house and in a hired hall. It seemed to work perfectly and in fact I ended up with a better sound out of the Yamaha than the roland desk anyway, so well pleased.

 

I also gigged with it on Friday night and it was great, really pleased......unfortunately I had the same problems on Saturday night

 

out of one speaker kept getting distortion and cutting out - changed cables again between sets and it seemed to be ok in test (albeit low volume) - started the next set and the same problem occured.

It isn't necessary to be pushing the speakers to start the fault, in fact it would be problematic even on just speaking......strange.

Out of desparation I pushed the crossover button on the back and hey presto it came back on again....even stranger I thought!

Later in the night the other speaker cut out as well and using my new "press the crossover button" technique it came back on.

I've absolutely no bloody idea what's going on with it and why pressing the crossover button in and out would make the signal come back on.

 

I've talked it over with the guy I bought it from at Mercury AV and as a last resort I'm changing my extension cables to the speakers. I'm doubtful as to whether this will work, but really I'm getting sick of them, want them sorted and am willing to try anything. I realise that it's difficult to pin down a problem when it's intermittent though.

 

Just for the record, I'm not a newb when it comes to PAs I've had nexo PS15 rig before this and I've still got a JBL SRX700 rig (although I want to sell it). I used to run that with 11.5k of power amps and never had any problems with current.

 

It's such a shame as well as they're really good sounding speakers. Hopefully it's a cable/power input problem and I'll sort it out.

 

by the way bassfreak, I too am compressing the vox but nothing on the main outs. and like you too, the O1v has really improved the overall sound...just getting the same strange problem that's all.