'sharing' smart repeater boxes

[londonjim]

Hi,

 

Soon, I am going to be using 4 VL5s, and 2 VL6s, and I wondered if they can feed from one Smart Repeater - or if I need a seperate one for each type.

 

Also, (not related to above QU) is it at all possible to run say 4 VL5s off a smart repeater and not use 78 channels? As 4 VL5s would only require 52 channels if my maths serves me right.

 

And just another thing, is the smart lamp cable connectors (the multi-pin things) 'standard' that I can get from Maplin, RS or somewhere? Or will I have to use PRGs smart lamp - reason being I need some EXACT lengths, and I do not want to coil them up, as the smart repeater will sit on the LX bar, and the Smart Lamp cable straight to the lights, and this is totally in view, and it MUST look neat. Does anyone know if actually 240V goes through the cable, or is it less.

[gareth]

Soon, I am going to be using 4 VL5s, and 2 VL6s, and I wondered if they can feed from one Smart Repeater - or if I need a seperate one for each type.

Not a Vari expert, but to the best of my knowledge you could do this under certain circumstances only. Either if everything was discharge rather than tungsten (i.e. 5Arcs only, no 5s or 5Bs) ; or, I think, if you have a mixture of APS (discharge source power supplies) and C3 (dimmer) modules in the rack feeding the repeater which has a mixture of discharge and tungsten sources connected. I don't believe there's a way to do it if you're using 'external' dimmers to drive the tungsten lamps in your 5s, but I'm not sure.

 

Also, (not related to above QU) is it at all possible to run say 4 VL5s off a smart repeater and not use 78 channels? As 4 VL5s would only require 52 channels if my maths serves me right.

Yes. Just set the repeater start address, plug the four fixtures into the first four ports, and ignore the addresses for ports 5 and 6. You can assign these addresses to something else.

 

And just another thing, is the smart lamp cable connectors (the multi-pin things) 'standard' that I can get from Maplin, RS or somewhere? Or will I have to use PRGs smart lamp - reason being I need some EXACT lengths, and I do not want to coil them up, as the smart repeater will sit on the LX bar, and the Smart Lamp cable straight to the lights, and this is totally in view, and it MUST look neat. Does anyone know if actually 240V goes through the cable, or is it less.

It's certainly 240v if you're using 5s or 5Bs - it has to be to power the lamp. I'm pretty sure it's 240v lamp power for 5Arcs/6s/6Bs/6Cs as well.

[Guest lightnix]

Yes, data and low voltage power-wise it's no problem; just address the box, plug them in, patch the desk and off you go.

 

However, you MUST make sure that the right kind of bulb power goes to the right kind of luminaire; dimmers to 5s and APS outputs to the 6s. If you feed dimmer power to VL6 lamps you'll kill them; they won't explode or do anything, they'll just stop working. Making sure this happens will probably involve some messing around with spiders at the racks. In the end it's simpler to keep to just one kind of light per repeater.

[David Buffham]

I agree with pretty much everything Gareth has said with the exception of the arc lamp power voltage - I'd doubt its 240V (but I don't know what it actually is!) Certainly 240V for standard VL5 lamp power. Just a couple of comments to add:

 

- it is doubtful whether a smart repeater & cabling rigged in full view will look all that neat. They were not designed with aesthetics in mind. The main problem is that the smart lamp cable outputs are mounted at right angles to the socapex lamp power, AC and DMX inputs, which makes it tricky to keep all the cabling neat in line with the bar. Its also possible that the repeater you receive may look a bit scratched and battered.

 

- I'd say making your own smart lamp cables is not particularly feasible; the different power & data cores in the cable are specifially designed and the 'proper' cable is extremely expensive, also the arc lamps must use shielded cable. You'd need to find out which exactly pins carry data, DC and lamp power to use appropriate cores for each pin. You could check with your account manager whether they have special length cables available that would suit your needs. Would it be possible for you to double-back the cable to remove any excess? - this would be neater than coiling.

 

- The neatest VL5 installation I've seen is in Mamma Mia but the smart lamp cables run through some kind of flexible conduit up to smart repeaters well out of view. Would it be feasible in your situation to use longer smart lamp cables and keep the repeater totally out of sight? Does it have to be rigged on the same LX bar as the fixtures?

 

- If you want to put VL5s and VL6s on same repeater you can request C3 dimmer modules in the APS rack for the VL5s, but you then have to ensure that the VL5 lamps are 110V. Also the dimmer curve on the C3s are not as good as conventional dimmers, and there is some latency in their response.

[gareth]

... the arc lamp power voltage - I'd doubt its 240V (but I don't know what it actually is!)

I''m sure you're right. For some reason I'd got it into my head that the lamp runs carried 240v out of the APS to the head, and that's where the actual step-down for the lamp happened. But thinking about it, that's clearly b*ll*cks! :)

 

Would it be possible for you to double-back the cable to remove any excess? - this would be neater than coiling.

The only potential pitfall that I can see with that is that the nature of the lamp run cables (i.e. nowhere near as flexible as ordinary mains or data) would make a sharp 180-degree bend pretty much impossible to achieve, so you'd still get a loop of cable standing proud of the bar. David's also quite right to point out that series 300 repeaters certainly aren't the most aesthetically pleasing pieces of kit - if you've got one or two of those rigged on a bar in full view of the punters, I'd say that a few small coils of cable discretely taped to the bar are the least of your problems!

 

If you want to put VL5s and VL6s on same repeater you can request C3 dimmer modules in the APS rack for the VL5s, but you then have to ensure that the VL5 lamps are 110V.

Didn't realise that the C3 modules would only run 110v. You learn something every day! ;)

[Guest lightnix]

- it is doubtful whether a smart repeater & cabling rigged in full view will look all that neat. They were not designed with aesthetics in mind. The main problem is that the smart lamp cable outputs are mounted at right angles to the socapex lamp power, AC and DMX inputs, which makes it tricky to keep all the cabling neat in line with the bar. Its also possible that the repeater you receive may look a bit scratched and battered.

I've found the best way to keep it neat (if there's room) is to face the outputs upsatge / away from the audience. Otherwise, install the VLSR remotely somewhere and make up the extra distance with lamp runs. Don't forget to mark the lamp runs as 1-6 at the repeater, just in case you need to replace it.

- I'd say making your own smart lamp cables is not particularly feasible; the different power & data cores in the cable are specifially designed and the 'proper' cable is extremely expensive, also the arc lamps must use shielded cable. You'd need to find out which exactly pins carry data, DC and lamp power to use appropriate cores for each pin. You could check with your account manager whether they have special length cables available that would suit your needs. Would it be possible for you to double-back the cable to remove any excess? - this would be neater than coiling.

Forget making your own, it's custom-made VL cable, not readily available by any stretch of the imagination, apart from which the right crimping tool costs a mint. I usually double excess cable back at the luminaire end, it can be done neatly without making too big a loop. Personally, I never leave coils of cable anywhere on the rig.

... If you want to put VL5s and VL6s on same repeater you can request C3 dimmer modules in the APS rack for the VL5s, but you then have to ensure that the VL5 lamps are 110V.

Didn't realise that the C3 modules would only run 110v. You learn something every day! ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They did try to produce a 230V version, but couldn't get any more than 208V out of it, without it melting or going bang. I wound up with a rack full of them on a show once. The warm, yellow light they produced, created a nice, comforting atmosphere, but was sadly not what we wanted for punchy, razzamattazzy award shows at the Grosvenor House and so back they went, never to be seen again.

[Rob]

Soon, I am going to be using 4 VL5s, and 2 VL6s, and I wondered if they can feed from one Smart Repeater - or if I need a seperate one for each type.

 

Also, if your using 6b's or 6c's in this combination youd need a Smart Repeater Plus rather than just a standard repeater. A standard smart repeater can power 6 5s/5arcs/6/vlms. 6bs and 6cs place a heavier load - the equivalent of two normal fixtures. Therefore you can only run 3 6bs or 6cs off one repeater.

 

A Smart Repeater Plus can handle six 6b's or 6c's IIRC. On the downside, they are bigger and uglier than a standard repeater.

[mac500]

Personally I would place the repeater in easy reach for if/when it fails you can easily replace it.

 

Speak to your account manager and see what he suggests.

[Don]

Back to the original question, if you are using 4x VL5 and 2x Vl6, you should ask for 1 normal repeater, and plug up the vl6 in ports 1 and 2, the the Vl5 in ports 3 thur 6 - yes on the same repeater.

Connect the repeater to the APS Chassis with the 30/60/100 foot APS cable what ever you require.

Ask the Vl account handler for 4 16a input plates for the chassis, these are APS size blanking plates with 16a trailing plugs on, this allows you to take 4 cables from your dimmer packs and connect them to the trailing lead, which then sends thru the APS soca cable into the repeater and to the lamp power of the lights.

You must make sure you dont get the pluging up wrong

Like wise if you are using VL6c you can do the same but you need a slightly different repeater.

Normal repeaters come in 5amp or 7amp types, the 7a amp type is for Vl6c but no more then 3 per repeater, the 5amp type is for Vl5/5a/5b/6/VLM

if you run more then 3 vl6c on a repeater or Vl7's then you need repeater plus 10amp.

 

Do not make your own cables! you can source the connecters in this country but the hassel it will be is not worth it. You are better off - if possible , running the lamp run off the bar and put the repeater on the fly floor or something, much neater. contact VL for cable sizes, max is 50ft before you need what they call super lamp run due to voltage drop.

 

In answer the the other question, the lamp cables do carry, data, 24v for the electronics in the light and 240v dimming for the tunsten lights and around 360/400 upon strike up for the Arc lights.

 

You need to run the repeater minium in mode 3 which is 10ch per light this is run both Vl5 and 6, if you wish to have extended control of timing channels then run mode 4 13ch.

 

If you are using Vl6c then you must run minium mode 5 14ch or extended in mode 6 17ch

 

The down side to running vl5 and vl6c on the same repeater is that you must assign minium 14ch to each light on the repeater for the vl6c to work, the vl5's then also recieve 14ch but the profile in your control desk will only offer you 10 or 13ch options, so patch as 13 and be careful when you patch address's, remember you cant just go 4x vl5 @ 1 as then it will patch one channel out each time.

 

Hope this helps, any more questions ask or contact The tech support department at PRG

[Tom Baldwin]

Normal repeaters come in 5amp or 7amp types, the 7a amp type is for Vl6c but no more then 3 per repeater, the 5amp type is for Vl5/5a/5b/6/VLM

if you run more then 3 vl6c on a repeater or Vl7's then you need repeater plus 10amp.

 

Interesting... could you perhaps explain this one to me a bit more, please?

 

I'm struggling to understand why the (arc) lamp wattage should impact upon the Smart Repeater - my understanding is that the Smart Repeater provides control functions, but passes the power (whether dimmed for a VL5, or "arc power" from an APS6 module) through unmodified from the Socapex input on to the Series 300 connectors.

 

Thanks!

 

Tom

 

P.S. where do VL get their equipment names from (APS6, C3 etc?) The department of the deeply random?

[londonjim]

Yes you are right. The power you add to the SR is for control and the soca is for bulb.

 

Dno about names, maybe its to do with the components?

[Guest lightnix]

Forgive me, londonjim, but if, as you say, you work for...

...a lighting company in Reading (Berks) which has a nice stock of Macs and VLs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and who...

...have some VL5s (on a contract thing)... not that many, but a managable amount.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

then surely they should be able to fix you up with all the training and support you need to pull this task off, without leaving you to have to ask around for solutions in a web forum. After all, as your employers, they have a legal duty to ensure you are fully competent and properly equipped to do your job.

 

Anyway, I'd still use two repeaters if I were you. Stuffing everything into one is just asking for trouble in my experience. At least with two repeaters, if a port goes down (as they do from time to time) you can replug the affected luminaire into an empty one and repatch the address at the desk. Much faster and much less grief than swapping out a whole repeater in some dark corner of the rig, believe me.

[David Buffham]

I'm struggling to understand why the (arc) lamp wattage should impact upon the Smart Repeater - my understanding is that the Smart Repeater provides control functions, but passes the power (whether dimmed for a VL5, or "arc power" from an APS6 module) through unmodified from the Socapex input on to the Series 300 connectors.

I believe the reason for the difference in repeaters is down to the maximum DC current each fixture requires. VL6B/C/VL7 have more functions (and therefore motors) than the 5s and 6s, so the repeater for these needs a bigger PSU to cope with all motors on all ports running simulatenously, e.g. during mark cues.

 

P.S. where do VL get their equipment names from (APS6, C3 etc?) The department of the deeply random?

I know APS means arc power supply but not sure about the 6. C3 is short for constant current control

[Tom Baldwin]

I believe the reason for the difference in repeaters is down to the maximum DC current each fixture requires. VL6B/C/VL7 have more functions (and therefore motors) than the 5s and 6s,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That makes a lot of sense - I guess it's incidental that the lamp power went up at the same time as the function count did.

 

Cheers!

 

Tom

[Guest lightnix]

I believe the reason for the difference in repeaters is down to the maximum DC current each fixture requires. VL6B/C/VL7 have more functions (and therefore motors) than the 5s and 6s,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That makes a lot of sense - I guess it's incidental that the lamp power went up at the same time as the function count did.

 

Cheers!

Tom

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes that's right, although AFAIK it's only the 6C and 7 that require VLSR+'s to run more than three from one box. The 7 also has more cooling fans.

 

Sorry if I'm nitpicking <_<