lack of vocal clarity/volume at glastonbury

[peza2010]

it does seem a bit suspect that a band doesn't agree to play unless there own broadcast engineer is on the dials.

 

I don't know, it is not really much different to requiring your own FOH engineer.

 

I suppose I may be jumping to a conclusion here, but surely not all acts brought there own broadcast engineer? as posted above muse bringing theres was a special request for whatever reason, so personally I cant see it being not much different to bringing your own FOH enginer. so somewhere down the line, muse must have been dissapointed with broadcast quality and wanted to do something about it?

[paulears]

I think we have a number of issues here that need to have some facts applied.

 

Colleagues far higher skilled and experienced than I'll ever be have indicated that the chances of a live sound engineer being able to slip into the hotseat of a multi channel broadcast system and mixing for stereo and all the multi-channel sources with extensive experience are slim, so if this did happen with Muse, then we need some facts on this - who is this person, and how did it happen he/she was able to do a multi-channel mix.

The BBC TV mix is always done by somebody who can't be bothered and just sits at their big broadcast console (Euphonix last time we played) and does the minimum amount possible whilst proclaiming to be the best sound engineer in the world who 'does things the right way, the BBC way' blar blar bored already.

Care to justify this one? I have a suspicion that at least two people on this forum know some of the people concerned, so this is rather hard.

 

You seem to have a firm opinion, which is fine - everyone is entitled to it - but it's a bit damning. What makes you think this way?

[peza2010]

a bit of an update: ive had a listen to the same show from last night, this time through my surround sound system.. and it sounds good! as suspected, the centre speaker has a heavy vocal mix in it, so this can be lost on systems that do not have it.

 

fair enough surround sound systems are common, but surely you cant mix just for that, or is this down to the television?

[brainwave-generator]

I think we have a number of issues here that need to have some facts applied.

 

Colleagues far higher skilled and experienced than I'll ever be have indicated that the chances of a live sound engineer being able to slip into the hotseat of a multi channel broadcast system and mixing for stereo and all the multi-channel sources with extensive experience are slim, so if this did happen with Muse, then we need some facts on this - who is this person, and how did it happen he/she was able to do a multi-channel mix.

The BBC TV mix is always done by somebody who can't be bothered and just sits at their big broadcast console (Euphonix last time we played) and does the minimum amount possible whilst proclaiming to be the best sound engineer in the world who 'does things the right way, the BBC way' blar blar bored already.

Care to justify this one? I have a suspicion that at least two people on this forum know some of the people concerned, so this is rather hard.

 

You seem to have a firm opinion, which is fine - everyone is entitled to it - but it's a bit damning. What makes you think this way?

 

I have been (as FOH) to many festivals or Maida Vale sessions with bands and whenever we meet our BBC OB engineer, they have always just grunted at us, refused any offer of us helping constructively, and told us that 'the BBC way is the only way' and suggested that, since we are not the BBC, we should F-O.

 

This was very unlike our appearances in Germany where despite the language barrier, the OB engineers were always really keen to help, very appreciative of us helping them, and asked us if we could reference to any other bands or give him a CD of our own stuff so they could get a feel for the mix.

 

The BBC blokes have always just come across as moody, up their own and completely uninterested in what is going on around them.

 

As for Muse's engineer, I can't remember his name, I think it's Andy-something but don't quote me up on that. As for your colleagues, you may wish to share with them that this bloke, who's name escapes me, is NOT Muse's FOH engineer. The FOH Engineer did the FOH sound. Their OB Engineer is Muse's full time OB engineer and mixes every OB at every show which features one, so he is quite familiar with how it works I would imagine. Furthermore, I am sure that if any pre-show familiarisation was required, Muse would have also insisted on having that as part of the deal.

 

It is common knowledge in the live sound community that this happened!

 

Also, people might find this interesting to clear up a few things...

 

http://www.prosoundnewseurope.com/website-content/full/40-years-of-glastonbury-all-over-tv-and-radio

[S&L]

as a side show to this debate, I am thinking that since the problem is partly at my home end and I love to watch and listen to live music then I should now think about putting ina system relevant to the bbc's live output. would someone care to have a stab at spec'ing what may be needed for a budget home system for freeview that would also work with traditional stereo.

[peza2010]

I am thinking that since the problem is partly at my home end.

 

I don't think it is. I think that the beeb should have a way of broadcasting that isn't biased towards those with surround sound.

 

personally I think it is unacceptable to have a system that makes normal non surround sound users have a worse experience.

[whisky-zulu]

Well, according to that Pro-Sound article (assuming I've read it right), the Beeb were broadcasting in stero due to the editing constraints and complications.

 

 

As for a "budget" 5.1/ stero system, mine that is working with audio feed from TV into computer via line in, then through the computer's sound card are: two pairs of Sony SRS-A201 (Sadly now discontinued and I haven't heard the replacements for these) for Lefts and Rights and Edifier's Predator tweeters and sub for Center and Sub- total cost was about £70 for the speakers. All I have to do on the computer's sound card is change the setting over from what sort of output I want - in Stereo all the speakers are still used.

[ceecrb1]

ii would also agree about beeb engineers.

 

 

I commented recently that the big weekend audio was shocking too. remeber gaga's mic being open to iplayer before being on stage. also the apauling levels of ambient mics was way out of balance.

 

I think its simply a case of I do live sound, so I wouldnt go selling myself to do studio work.. maybe they should have the same view.. hire in a band engineer for these events rather than guys used to doing studio and live sports etc.

 

its not a case of good or bad engineer, its a case of engineer with different experience and skillset.

 

I cant backup with facts, but I have worked within the beep a lot more than most and have seen how they work.

very very unionised!!

[S&L]

several thoughts occur:

1. if it's the way the bbc broadcast no matter what I think, I'm unlikely to get them to change for me!

2. can we all get a concensus as to whether this is bad mixing or it has been mixed for 5:1

3. once we have a concensus, can we work out something that spec's as a basic system to comply with bbc's sound standard that doesn't involve the pc being on and wired up?

nothing wrong with wiring that way you understand just that I prefer not to have a pc in the middle of the solution because other non technician folk here may want to turn the tv on without logging onto home network etc.

[peza2010]

radio 6's audio broadcast was HD audio...

errr yeah, of course :S

 

LINKY

[whisky-zulu]

Given what I've heard about various events the Beeb have done lately where they've (apparently) sent +40 dB line level to mixers while using active splits giving the live engineer no headroom to play with, I would go with the "it's a case of shoddy mixing" camp.

 

I can say that *I* didn't notice any difference in the quality of the audio between the 5.1 system and when I switched to the TV's own speakers - though I did notice that in the post set interview with U2, I could barely hear Bono et al talking through either of my systems, whereas the presenters were what could arguably called "normal" level.

 

I can understand you not wanting to have to have a PC in line with the system - I've only wired mine up that was my computer/ TV room is fairly small and self contained and rather than clutter up the place with speakers I did it this way. I would certainly recommend the Edifier systems, and I've head some good things said about some of the Logitech systems too.

[dan slv-tech]

Last summer I did a huge east london festival with over 80,000 people there.

This was covered by the BBC both for the stage and BBC asian radio

 

The amount of patching from stage to truck, truck to truck was collosal.

 

The engineer wanted to put there own mics on certain sources, a extra kick drum mic, a couple of ambient stage mics and a couple of ambient crowd mics.

They used an active fiber split from the mon split system.

 

The BBC crew were nice chaps, polite, the OB engineer wasnt rude, and wasnt nice, just that!

I remember him telling me that they compress the living life out of signals to get them within a dynamic range, and to prevent any nasties.

I got a chance to go up into the truck and was really impressed by it all.

 

The content is still online, and as I was there on stage mixing monitors the two were pretty spot on.

The material that was broadcast was quite heavily compressed, almost pumping, but still quite musical.

 

What looks easy in fact isnt......

Lots of patching, crossed lines, signals not appearing where they should.

 

 

D

[Gareth Owen]

Can anyone comment on what it sounded like in the field?

[Rob_Beech]

A question I have that I've not necessarily worked with before. Do the FOH guys send an FX return down a line for the OB to use to get the fx the act want, or do they choose their own? I've never sent one, as I've never been asked. I've sent one back for Mons where they've wanted a realistic representation of the FX out front, not one driven from monitor world, but never for recording.

 

 

Rob

[ceecrb1]

good question rob!!!!